questions about rolling with vit c serum and Infadolan

[victorc]

Hi Sarah, I"m currently using the 1.5mm roller for deep scars. From reading other places, it seems (also logically if you think about it) that for maximal absorption of products, you'd apply half of the products, roll, then apply the other half immediately after cleaning and roll.

My question is about whether this approach poses any problems with the longer rollers.

For example, with the vit c serum, given it's an acid, it'll probably sting like crazy (and goes against your instructions of not applying vit C until 3 days after roll); but if one can tolerate the pain, doesn't applying the vit c serum in the fashion I described above ensure more absorption?

On the other hand, given the Infadolan ointment is not acidic vit A, are any of its other ingredients undesirable when you roll it INTO your skin?

Thanks very much.

[victorc]

Also, an unrelated question. Directly after rolling with 1.5mm, I am red and look basically like this: :mad:  , with some very minor pin point bleeding on my forehead.

However, after about 2 hours, it has all gone away and I now look more like this:

Also from reading other forums and looking at post procedure pictures from professional rolls, it appears I'm not rolling vigorously enough? People talk of being red for DAYs, and have to use gauze to wipe off fluids during the rolls.

Thank you.

[SarahVaughter]

Vit. C has a half-l of four days so there is no need to put strain on the skin by applying acid to the deeply rolled skin (> 0.5mm). Trying to get rid of pigmentation is an exception.

You should apply a high concentration of vit. C serum prior to rolling to ensure its maximum concentration when the collagen formation starts after the rolling and you should certainly continue applying vit. C  after two or three days because collagen production will continue for months. Don't forget to wash your skin prior to the application of the vit. C solution, otherwise it will not be able to penetrate.

You achieve the best penetration of vit.C in the skin by making a low-percentage of vit. C serum and apply it after a 0.2 or 0.25 mm rolling session or even roll the solution into your skin but it will sting. If your skin takes it well, gradually increase the percentage to a maximum of 20%.

The Infadolan ointment has several roles when applied after rolling. It supplies vitamin A and D that are both fat-soluble and will penetrate into your skin especially when the skin has been dermarolled. The other function is occlusion by forming a protective barrier. It means it reduces oxidative damage of your temporarily vulnerable rolled skin. Occlusion also prevents bacteria or other pathogens entering your rolled skin. It also keeps the well-needed moisture in the skin by locking that moisture in and preventing its evaporation. That's why it is not good to roll Infadolan into your skin. It should stay on top of your skin and perform those occlusive functions. Don't worry: The vitamins A and D will be able to penetrate deep into your skin if you apply the ointment after rolling.

  You should only use 1.5 mm needles on the same area once a month. If you want to roll for skin care product penetration then you should roll with 0.2 or 0.25 mm. You can roll a skin care cream of your choice into your skin.

  Ointments should be applied after the rolling. Try to keep your cream as bacteria free as possible. Always wash your hands with soap before you touch the cream or take the cream out with some cheap disposable instrument (such as toothpick or something similar) or buy a cream in a tube.

I'll answer your second question after I take my shower :-)

[SarahVaughter]

If you are a man then you are in general just like the great majority of other males blessed with thicker skin than females are. That's why men are usually less wrinkly than women. Well - women are not wrinklier but it costs them a fortune to stay that way

  Women's thinner skin brings with it that the same roller will cause more bleeding in female skin than in male skin. It doesn't mean rolling with the same needle length is less efficient for men though. The skin is not such a "thick" organ and its thickness varies depending on which part of the body it covers. All you need is to achieve is that your fibroblasts will produce new collagen. You don't have to go so very deep for that.

   

  Some professionals use 3 mm long needles but its benefit is controversial due to the fact that in a study pertaining this subject, all new collagen induced by rolling was formed within a depth of 1.5 mm only!

   

  As long as you get some inflammation (redness) then the triggering of growth factors should commence and it is not important how long the inflammation lasted. For details read:

   

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-long-does-the-inflammation-stage-lasts-after-rolling-with-long-needles

   

  A short period of skin redness means that your body very quickly and efficiently removed the damaged cells caused by rolling and hopefully it trigged the desirable processes in your skin leading to thickening of the skin and the production of new collagen.

[victorc]

Thanks for your answers Sarah. Interesting article on copper peptides!

[emily100]

Two questions:

1.  Vitamin C:    I just made my first batch with the crystals you sent me.  (My plan is to start dermarolling again in 3 days. FYI - I just had a chemical peel 3.5 weeks ago)   I  know you recommend a 20:1 ratio, but due to how watery it was after adding the 10th part of hot water, I stopped thinking I just had to be doing something wrong. (My one "part" was 1/4 tsp, by the way.)

     a.  What type texture/consistency is the mixture supposed to be?  W/ the 10:1 mixture, it felt as if I was putting water on my face.  

     b.  You mentioned that the remaining Vit C mixture should be stored in a container w/ aluminum foil around it and in the fridge.  What about the crystals? Do those need to be in the fridge wrapped up?

 

     c.   Finally, do I always rinse Vitamin C off my face and then proceed with my regular moisturizers??

     d.  Where can I buy more Vitamin C crystals?  

2.  INFADOLAN:   Does it do any good to use Infadolan ointment on any days other than when I roll? Do some people use it every night and can you get benefit from using it on a daily basis or is that just overkill?  How do you use it?

[SarahVaughter]

A vit. C solution is very watery.  It is basically water with an acidic taste.

  You do'nt rinse vit. C off your face. It should stay.  If you want to rinse it because you do not want to have an acid taste , leave it on your skin as long as you can (overnight is good) and rinse it off in the morning. If you find it makes you sticky, add more water to the solution.  The crystals are very stable - much more so than the solution but keep them dark, dry and in a closed bag or container.

Regarding  Infadolan:  I recently received the question whether it can be useful to use Infadolan for wrinkles around the eyes. This was my response:

  We have a customer who uses Infadolan around her eyes and she is very happy with her results. She emailed us.  We put it on the forum:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Infadolan-experience-thread

Vit. A is essential for the normal functioning of skin cells.

 

 Although I don't think that any cream can make wrinkles disappear, it may improve skin texture and help prevent the skin drying out.

 

  There is no reason why an ointment could not be put around the eyes. The difference between the base for an ointment and a cream is that the ointment is much greasier. Do take care not to get ointment into the eyes though.

Vit. A is fat soluble. That's why it often in greasy creams.

The skin around the eyes is usually dry, especially as we age and it can benefit from an oilier basis.

Give it a try and you will see (patience required). If you are not happy - just stop using it.

 Do not expect the wrinkles to disappear though. If you are lucky you might get a little improvement.

 We have moved our dispatch center to a country with very low shipping fees. You'll notice that you'll pay a mere 2.5 USD for a double refill of vit. C crystals. So you pay 6.5 USD for 40 grams including shipping. A single refill is only 4 USD incl. shipping. Also the shipping cost of everything else is greatly reduced, making it much cheaper to order for ex. single needles or copper peptide masks. To see the cost of shipping, click on the "Estimate shipping" button when you're viewing your shopping cart.

[emily100]

Awesome!! You are intuitive as I was about to ask you what the breaking point with shipping was for quantities of copper peptide masks!! Thanks! I am about to go shopping at your store!  I really want to thank you for all you do here!! Takes a lot to impress me and you have. BTW, I am on several beauty/plastic surgery forums, and I have touted your site (and you) a great deal. People are interested.....

[emily100]

How many days consecutively do you recommend putting on Vitamin C??  If I am NOT to rinse (I was thinking I read to rinse and apply Infadolan -- hence, why I asked the question above) the Vit C off and just sleep in it, then it appears I will not be using my night time moisturizing regimen as much. Is this correct?   What is the MOST amount of times you would recommend me putting on Vit C in any given week?  1 days, 2 days, all but the days I roll??   I know there's no clearcut answer but if you could just speak in terms of what works for you, that would be great! I am confusing myself now.

[SarahVaughter]

Just relax and use it as much as you are comfortable with. Vit. C has quite a long half-time so you don't have to do it too often. A couple of days before rolling is important. If you keep the vit. C on the skin for hours, you can get away with less days of using it. Two nights on the skin before rolling would be excellent. All you do beyond that is nice, but not essential.

[emily100]

Thank you! I'm relaxed.