Advice on treating acne breakouts and blackheads before derma rolling

[kakalakingma]

Anna, I am so glad we are cool. LOL. My skin is better. I am lacking vegetables still! But my face is good so far. I think I get to user the derma roller soon!

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Anyway, I have found some useful links for forum readers here if anyone is interested!

From DERMAdoctor, an article titled, "Acne - topical therapies", in which she talks extensively on the list of topical therapies but also lasers and lights. She lists some product suggestions that are quite pricey. She does not include published research, though. Her commentary are simple and clean and easy to understand.

From DermTV, I found this website run by dermatologist, Dr. Schultz, where he frequently post videos and answers his internet followers' questions regarding skin care and dermatology. Here are specific links to questions and video pages of which he targets the topic of acne: Q & A on Acne; Videos on Acne. His videos and responses to questions are brief, but can still be of interests to some who wants quick insights (not necessarily solid answers) on problems they have!

From CosmeticsCop, I have know this lady for a while now and I trust much of her products and work. She composed a well organized piece of treatments on acne. She has succinct writing and her opinion is  backed with published research (for those you wants to read studies and reviews).

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Update on my regimen: I have incorporated Clearasil Adult Acne Treatment Cream Tinted with 2% resorcinol and 8%  sulfur. It has help my skin looks better; I am less oily visibly and I have less pimples (clearing still). The first night I applied it I got a little tingly sensation, but none of it the following day. I guess that means my skin has adapted to the ingredients. I apply it at night and  benzoyl peroxide in the morning.

[kakalakingma]

Hi forum members!

    I have been searching the web for more information and I came across ingredients interaction that has to do with benzoyl peroxide. According to Wikipedia, benzoyl peroxide functions as an oxidizing agent in order to destroy acne bacteria:

"The oxygen-oxygen bond in peroxides is weak. Thus benzoyl peroxide readily undergoes homolysis (symmetrical scission), forming free radicals:

    [C6H5C(O)]2O2 → 2 C6H5CO2• " (LINK)

The "•" is represent the radical. Homolysis is the chemical reaction that generation free radicals (LINK). Even though benzoyl peroxide is prepare through hydrogen peroxide and benzoyl chloride, it is important to understand that this is NOT the same thing as hydrogen peroxide and its ability to generate oxidative stress on the skin: "2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2". We usually know that free radicals are from oxygen. I have not found a piece of research on the benefit of hydrogen peroxide on acne, but there is an abundant amount of research on benzoyl peroxide, however! There is a piece of research stating that the inflammation from acne increase hydrogen peroxide production by neutrophils (STUDY LINK)

Though I will say that I am not sure if all forms of free radical damage from different compound does the same level of damage. According to Dr. Todorov, "you are right BP is pro-oxidant. However, inflammation from acne is also pro-oxidant. For people with severe acne, for whom BP is the only remedy that works, it might be a lesser "evil" that leaving acne untreated. But it may be better to try other acne remedies first. Talk to your dermatologist." (LINK)

With that said, you should NOT use your vitamin C or any antioxidant serums simultaneously because their innate chemical functions end up canceling their benefits. Another one is Tretinoin, "Tretinoin and benzoyl peroxide neutralize each other when applied at the same time. " (LINK). In sum, use benzoyl peroxide medication and antioxidant/Retin-A products at opposite end of the day!

[Anna]

that's interesting I'm glad I don't use bp I use herbs like comfrey mixed with grapeseed oil and dot it on individual spots it works and it doesn't irritate my skin at all

[Anna]

heres some info I found on comfrey in case anyone cares https://http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/comfrey.html

[kakalakingma]

Hi forum members!

     Okay, so I have been researching benzoyl peroxide and I came across a summary article posted on "acne.org" regarding the FDA review on OTC benzoyl peroxide. The FDA concluded that the use of benzoyl peroxide is SAFE AND EFFECTIVE. I pasted the summary here:

"The safety of Benzoyl Peroxide is periodically brought up by board members as an area of concern. Questions about whether it may increase skin cancer risk or cause DNA damage (and thus damage or accelarate the aging the skin) are the most common concerns. Given those concerns, I thought this information from the FDA was important to share with the messageboard members.

The FDA has updated its safety classification of Benzoyl Peroxide to a Category I (Safe and Effective). In 1991, the classification was listed as a type III, which meant that more data was needed before the FDA could determine the actual safety classification (it was never considered to be "unsafe" though). The body of the research conducted since that time has lead the FDA to change the classification to a safe and effective. I have the full article from the Federal Registry, for those who are interested in reading more details. I plan to post it in another thread. The abstract is below, and I highlighted a few points from the article as well.



Classification of Benzoyl Peroxide as Safe and Effective and Revision of Labeling to Drug Facts Format; Topical Acne Drug Products for Over-The-Counter Human Use; Final Rule

AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration,HHS.

ACTION: Final rule.

SUMMARY: We, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), are issuing this final rule to include benzoyl peroxide as a generally recognized as safe and effective (GRASE) active ingredient in over-the-counter (OTC) topical acne drug products. In addition, this final rule includes new warnings and directions required for OTC acne drug products containing benzoyl peroxide. We are also revising labeling for OTC topical acne drug products containing resorcinol, resorcinol monoacetate, salicylic acid and/or sulfur to meet OTC drug labeling content and format

requirements in a certain FDA regulation. This final rule is part of our ongoing review of OTC drug products and represents our conclusions on benzoyl peroxide in OTC acne drug products.

Additional points of interest:

-They did not find BPO to be a genotoxic substance, which basically means they do not believe that it damages DNA. They go on to add that even though BPO has been shown in research to create oxidative damage, that in humans, there are oxidative repair mechanisms that would likely prevent benzoyl peroxide from causing DNA damage.

-They did not find BPO to be carcinogenic. They state: "We have reviewed a number of animal studies examining the carcinogenic potential of benzoyl peroxide and conclude that benzoyl peroxide is not a carcinogen." They also determined that there was no evidence to indicate that BPO is a photocarcinogen.

They are requiring an update to the warning labels on BPO products as well. Any OTC products that contain BPO will need to have the following warnings on the label:

• Avoiding unnecessary sun exposure

• Not using on very sensitive skin

• Keeping away from the eyes, lips, and mouth

• Cautioning that benzoyl peroxide may bleach hair or dye fabric



They will also require a direction for drug products containing benzoyl

peroxide to use a sunscreen when going outside."  (ARTICLE LINK)

If you prefer to read the WHOLE thing, you want to visit THIS GOV. LINK.

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ANOTHER UPDATE ON MY REGIMEN:

Well, my skin has gotten CLEARER!!! Okay, last week, I got a little confident with the products and I layer 10% benzoyl peroxide over my Clearasil product (with 8% sulfur and 2% resorcinol) --- a day or two later my skin got very itchy and peeling. I had to use OTC 1% hydrocortisone cream from Aveeno and it got better. Phew! So, please don't try to be impatient with your skin and act brave and apply two strong strong product just to be aggressive with your pimples AND YOUR WHOLE FACE. I am apply 10% benzoyl peroxide in the morning and Clearasil at night.

 I think I will discontinue 10% benzoyl peroxide and return to 2.5% benzoyl peroxide, which I will buy for cheap at acne.org.  Acne.org offer affordable and bulk benzoyl peroxide products with not a lot of nonsensical ingredients in them.

[Update: Acne.org also offer an 10% glycolic acid product with a pH of 4.0-4.1.]

[Update 2: I want to add that I also apply that Clearasil product on my nose. It actually has help with the appearance of my blackheads problem, but not complete... yet?]

[Update 3: Here is my updated skin care products:

Daytime

Cleanser: Neutrogena Fresh Foaming Cleanser

Scrub: Neutrogena Deep Clean Daily Long-Last Shine Control Scrub

Toner: Neutrogena Alcohol Free Toner (I rarely use this now. I just finishing it up. I use it when I have a lot of flakes)

Exfoliant: Paula's Choice 2% BHA liquid

Acne Medication: Clean and Clear Persa-Gel

Sunscreen: Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Liquid Daily Sunblock SPF 55

Nighttime

Cleanser: Neutrogena Fresh Foaming Cleanser

Scrubs: Neutrogena Deep Clean Daily Long-Last Shine Control Scrub or St. Ives Naturally Clear Green Tea Scrub (maybe 3-5X per week; I switch them around for fun. I am almost out of the latter)

Toner: Neutrogena Alcohol Free Toner

Exfoliant: Paula's Choice 2% BHA Liquid

Acne Treatment:Clearasil Adult Acne Treatment Cream, Tinted

Retinoid: Prescription Retin-A 0.1% (after approx. 30 min)]

[kakalakingma]

Anna;985 wrote: heres some info I found on comfrey in case anyone cares https://http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/comfrey.html

 

Hi Anna, I have read the whole article and dang, it was loooonnnggg. LOL. I have pasted the parts I find interesting. I do note that the good reviews of comfrey came mostly if not only from anecdotal evidence. Also, the author is on the defense of comfrey oral and topical use. He claims that there are lobbyists that are at fault for making comfrey look bad. Only one way to know.. RESEARCH for yourself.

“This action, together with comfrey’s allantoin properties (a cell proliferant) provides us with a very powerful herb. Allantoin is one of the elements that makes comfrey unique. Allantoin is also produced in the allantois gland of the umbilical cord (the link between mother and developing baby, which feeds the embryo) for promoting rapid cell growth. Mothers’ milk is also rich in allantoin (which stimulates rapid growth of the new baby) and then the element fades out. This process also takes place in other mammals. Allantoin is a leucocytosis promoter (increases white blood cells) that helps to establish immunity from many infectious conditions….

Yes, scientific investigations from various sources have revealed the presence of pyrrolizidine (PA’s) in comfrey, substances that are regarded as potentially hepatoxic, carcinogenic, and mutagenic. PA’s are believed to have an accumulative effect in the body and may cause hepatic vein blockage and liver toxicity. It is said that the PA’s are only converted to toxic metabolites, in the body, by the liver enzymes. When comfrey is applied externally to the skin, as a cream, it is not considered to be a significant intake of PA’s, in view of low dermal absorption of the PA’s. When comfrey is dried, enzymes are released and much of the alkaloid is destroyed….

From trials, in Minnesota U.S.A. in 1987, in an attempt to determine cultural and environmental factors associated with the production of PA’s, it was found that comfrey, harvested at different times in the growing season, can be of varying PA amounts. Roots were found to have the highest concentration of PA’s, generally with 10 times as much as young leaves. In one trial, in 1986, immature leaves contained 0.026% pyrrolizidine, on a dry weight basis. A subsequent harvest during the growing season, had no detectable PA’s in the leaf (the minimum detectable quantity was 5 ppm). The data indicated, harvest time was a critical factor in producing PA free comfrey, and that mature leaves have an even lower alkaloid content, than young leaves.”

Want to add comfrey into skin care?

But if any of you are aware of Paula Begoun work, she does not like comfrey as an ingredient due to the risk of PA: “Topical application of comfrey has anti-inflammatory properties, but is recommended only for short-term use and only then if you can be sure the amount of pyrrolizidine alkaloids is less than 100 micrograms per application—something that would be impossible to determine without sophisticated testing equipment, making comfrey an ingredient to avoid. The alkaloid content makes it a potential skin irritant (Sources: Chemical Research in Toxicology, November 2001, pages 1546–1551; and Public Health Nutrition, December 2000, pages 501–508).”

This type of information Paula found is not unique. Comfrey's reputation is similiar to other plants too. Just think, any plant extract has a large number of chemicals in them; therefore, you are better the beneficial ones and the very bad ones. Other plant examples are feverfew, chamomile, calendula, arnica montana, etc.

Other than that, here is the DIY recipe provided in the article (you have been warned though):

“Comfrey Cream

To make an ointment to use externally, take 1 cup of finely cut comfrey root and simmer in 1 cup of olive oil until it starts to soften. Cool and strain. Add 50g of beeswax (usually available from supermarkets). Jasmine or orange blossoms may be added to the simmering mixture, to give the cream a pleasant smell. The cream is used to relieve pain and aid healing of cuts, bites, sprains, arthritis, dry vaginal conditions, inflammation and neuralgia.”

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The STAR ingredient seems very much to be allantoin. I have seen this ingredient in a lot of skin care products. Below are some research I have found for allantoin use.

https://http://www.in-cosmetics.com/ExhibitorLibrary/58/ALLANTOIN_CTFA.pdf

Treatment of pruritus in mild-to-moderate atopic dermatitis with a topical non-steroidal agent.

Treatment of mild to moderate seborrhoeic dermatitis with MAS064D (Sebclair), a novel topical medical device: results of a pilot, randomized, double-blind, controlled trial.

Sebclair is an ointment that contains allantoin.

Allantoin as A Biomarker of Inflammation in an Inflammatory Bowel Disease Mouse Model: NMR Analysis of Urine

Final Report of the Safety Assessment of Allantoin and Its Related Complexes

The Biosynthesis of Allantoin in Symphytum

Biological functions of allantoin

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The CULPRIT of comfrey has to be PA. Below are the research I have found on it.

Determination of pyrrolizidine alkaloids in commercial comfrey products (Symphytum sp.)

Analysis, separation, and bioassay of pyrrolizidine alkaloids from comfrey (Symphytum officinale)

Structure and toxicity of the alkaloids of Russian comfrey (Symphytum x uplandicum Nyman), a medicinal herb and item of human diet

The efficacy and safety of comfrey

Mutagenicity of comfrey (Symphytum Officinale) in rat liver

Plant Sources of Hepatotoxic Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids

Toxicity and Metabolism of Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids1

Simultaneous analysis of hepatotoxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids and N-oxides in comfrey root by LC-ion trap mass spectrometry

Hepatic venocclusive disease associated with the consumption of pyrrolizidine-containing dietary supplements

In sum, I think people are need to be cognizant of the risk when apply products with comfrey, just really avoid eating the thing. People are better off with looking for products with just allantoin, rather then having it be part of comfrey extract in skin care product.

Have a nice day

[FINLEY]

As a life-long sufferer of acne I have tried everything, and have found the best spot-treatment for acne is Steris Alcare alcohol foam cleanser and Lerosett clay, both which are easily purchased from on-line sources.

The minute I feel the very slightest bump or red area I cleanse it with the Alcare foam- rub the foam gently into the spot for at least 5-15 seconds (it disappears), and then apply Lerosett clay to the spot for 2 hours.  I then clean spot again approximately every 1-3 hours with the Alcare foam, as my schedule allows, rubbing the foam into the spot.  Then cleanse face at bedtime with regular cleanser, then clean spot with Alcare foam again, and apply Lerosett clay to spot, leaving on overnight.  Keep doing this for as many days as it takes for spot to disappear.  You will be amazed at how much less traumatic this spot-treatment is compared to many other treatments, and it really works- I usually find that after a few days the small plug that was causing the acne spot will just roll out of the spot when I am rubbing the spot with foam.  (You can put a small amt of Lerosett on spot after work if your social life allows.)

The Lerosett clay is organic which I consider a plus.  This regimen has worked for me after suffering from acne for 41 years.     Good luck!

[kakalakingma]

Hi FINELY,

     This is so nice, another forum member participate! I have some commentary to share!

      I have checked out the STERIS website and I do not see any cleanser, but the closest name I can find is “Alcare ® OR Foamed Antiseptic Handrub”. This is not a cleanser, but technically a hand sanitizer. This company seems to sell their products to professionals. According to the provided MSDS, this hand sanitizer contains the following:

      Now, looking that the ingredient list, I am not exactly sure why it is so expensive (it cost about 30 bucks on Amazon). You can get 70% ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol at your local drugstore around a dollar or two. I bought mine at Target for $1.99. FINELY, have you ever tried just applying rubbing alcohol on your pimple spots and compare it with the brand name version?

The research behind alcohol functioning as an effective and broad antiseptic exists and is clear. I tried to do a search for a specific study regarding alcohol and p. acne bacteria to no avail... as of now. But I have provided below several studies testing and discussing about the efficacy of alcohol. I haven't really read the whole study of any of them yet.



The virucidal spectrum of a high concentration alcohol mixture

Antiviral activity of alcohol for surface disinfection.

A clinical study comparing the skin antisepsis and safety of ChloraPrep, 70% isopropyl alcohol, and 2% aqueous chlorhexidine.

Evaluation of a 2% chlorhexidine gluconate in 70% isopropyl alcohol skin disinfectant.

A prospective, randomised, double-blind study of comparative efficacy of immediate versus daily cleaning of stethoscope using 66% ethyl alcohol.

Ethanol-based cleanser versus isopropyl alcohol to decontaminate stethoscopes.

Let's just assume 60+ % alcohol solution does kill p. acne bacteria, you must consider the drawbacks from overuse and size of application. Overuse is known to dry out the skin because the alcohol degrease the skin of its natural oil. Plus, it can cause redness and stinging to some people. If you are going to use alcohol, I say it is best to only spot treat just like how you do it, FINELY, and you can do it economically, too. Now, if any of you know who Paula Begoun is, she has not-so-nice things to say about low molecular weight alcohols. According to the ingredient dictionary page on her website, Ms. Begoun states:

"A group of organic compounds that have a vast range of forms and uses in cosmetics. In some benign forms they are glycols used as humectants that help deliver ingredients into skin. When fats and oils are chemically reduced, they become a group of less-dense alcohols called fatty alcohols that can have emollient properties or can become detergent cleansing agents. When alcohols have low molecular weights they can be drying and irritating. The alcohols to be concerned about in skin-care products are ethanol, denatured alcohol, ethyl alcohol, methanol, benzyl alcohol, isopropyl, and SD alcohol, which can be extremely drying and irritating to skin, as well as capable of generating free radical damage. (Sources: "Skin Care—From the Inside Out and Outside In," Tufts Daily, April 1, 2002; eMedicine Journal, May 8, 2002, volume 3, number 5, www.emedicine.com; Cutis, February 2001, pages 25–27; Contact Dermatitis, January 1996, pages 12–16; and https://http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh27-4/277-284.htm). When these ingredients are at the top of an ingredient list it is problematic for all skin types, when they are at the end of an ingredient list there isn’t enough concentration present to be considered a problem for skin.

Those with oily skin should avoid high amounts of the problematic types of alcohol mentioned above. These types of alcohol show up in numerous products aimed at oily or acne-prone skin. The problem? In addition to alcohol's other detrimental effects, it can stimulate nerve endings in the skin, causing inflammation that encourage excess oil production at the base of the pore (Sources: Archives of Dermatologic Research, July 2008, pages 311–316; Dermatology, January 2003, pages 17–23; and Medical Electron Microscopy, March 2001, pages 29–40)." (LINK)

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Okay, now onto the next product. I have checked the Gunilla of Sweden website and they do not provide the full ingredient list for the LEROSETT® 100% Organic Acne Clay. Therefore, I have no idea what is it in to comment on it. The website does say this: "LEROSETT® contains our "proprietary" heat-treated, mineral rich, 100% organic acne clay and distilled water". I have no idea what kind of clay this is, but I want to see some research. There are a variety of mineral "clay" out there such as bentonite, kaolin, silica, etc. I doubt ingredient lists are supposed to be secretive; they're supposed to be for the public. Why buy something if you have no idea what is in it?

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FINELY, I am glad that this method has work for you for 41 years. Keep it up. I do believe there is merit behind your acne regimen. Perhaps the alcohol disinfect the bacteria and drys up the oil as the clay absorbs the oils (for longer period), too, which theoretically prevents the bacteria from eating your sebum and producing inflammation. But something to also consider is that this method may work for only certain types of acne breakouts.

Good luck with everything! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

                     

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