Confused new dermaroller :)

[Kdebaker]

I currently purchased the 0.5mm Dermaroller for fine lines and to enhance the penetration of skin care products.  Although I think I should have ordered the .25mm

Please forgive me but I have to admit that I am a little confused with the instructions.  I would like to run down the steps as I see them and feel free to correct and change where you see fit.  These are very generic.

Every other day a few days before rolling:

1.   Wash face with oil free face wash

2.   Apply Vitamin C, wait ½ hour

3.   Apply Vitamin A

The evening of rolling:

1.   Disinfect rolling area, skin and hands with alcohol

2.   Roll in a star pattern with Dermaroller

3.   Apply skin care product after to enhance penetration of product, do this once a week

   

How do I incorporate Vitamin C and Vitamin A in to my regular skin care routine on a regular basis? (I use Obagi)  

Do I:

1.   Wash face

2.   Apply Vit C and A

3.   Apply Regular Skin Care

OR:

1.   Wash face

2.   Apply Vit C only

3.   Apply Regular Skin Care.

I don’t know why I am letting this get to me I just want to do it right 

[SarahVaughter]

Every other day a few days before rolling:

1. Wash face with oil free face wash

2. Apply Vitamin C, wait ½ hour

3. Apply Vitamin A

    Yes.  But you can also apply vit. C in the morning and vit. A in the evening or apply vit. C and the day after apply vit.A.

 

If your Obagi contains tretinoin or retinoic acid or retinol or retinyl palmitate or retinyl acetate then you are already having vit. A in your Obagi.





The evening of rolling:

1. Disinfect rolling area, skin and hands with alcohol

2. Roll in a star pattern with Dermaroller

3. Apply skin care product after to enhance penetration of product, do this once a week

The most important element for disinfection is the roller. Wash it with warm water and dishwashing liquid and dip it in alcohol after each use (pour some alcohol into a cup and submerge the roller in it). Air dry and keep it in a closed container until the next rolling.  Discard the alcohol you dipped it in.



Alcohol should never be reused. Fortunately it is cheap:



https://http://aarp.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Antiseptics/Apothecary-Ethyl-Rubbing-Alcohol/ID=prod475&navCount=0&navAction=push-product

 

You only have to disinfect the rolling environs (such as a desk) if you are using it, when rolling, to place the roller there, or if you touch that area your hand and then using the same hand to stretch the skin to be rolled, for example.

    If your skin is thick and doesn’t stay red hours after rolling, then you can roll three times a week.

 

How do I incorporate Vitamin C and Vitamin A in to my regular skin care routine on a regular basis? (I use Obagi)

Do I:

1. Wash face

2. Apply Vit C and A

3. Apply Regular Skin Care

 

 OR:

1. Wash face

2. Apply Vit C only

3. Apply Regular Skin Care.

 

If your Obagi contains vit A then add only vit. C to your routine (twice or three times a week). Wash your face, dry the skin,  use vit. C, wait at least 15 minutes for it to penetrate - then use Obagi.

  If your Obagi doesn’t contain vit. A, then get a cream with vit. A or use Obagi with vit.A.

Infadolan is excellent after rolling to protect and regenerate the skin and supply it with vit. A but it is not suitable to be put daily on the acne-prone parts of the facey because it is not a cream, it is an ointment (you can use it daily on other parts of body, it is very good to protect the back of the hands, rough elbows, the soles of the feet etc).

    Just remember that ascorbic acid (vit. C) cannot penetrate through oils and fats so it should be applied on bare skin and only after that you apply your creams.

[skinny]

you have mentioned that vit c can not penetrate the oils. but what about popular vit C serum made with E vitamin?

thanks.

[SarahVaughter]

The problem is that vit. C penetrates the skin at pH levels less than 3.5. The pH of vit. C in a water solution is very low so the penetration into the deeper skin levels is high.

 

 A 5% solution in water has a pH of 2.2 to 2.5:

https://http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/ascorbic.htm

pH in water: pH 2.4 - 2.8 (2% aqueous):

https://http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/50817.html

   

  The studies that use the vit.C + E combo (+ in some cases ferulic acid) used solvents and buffers:

   

  “L-ascorbic acid, DL-tocopherol, and trans ferulic acid were purchased from Sigma (St Louis, Missouri). Aqueous solutions were prepared in a vehicle containing diethylene glycol monoethyl ether, 1,2-propanediol, Brij-35, and phenoxyethanol at pH 3.”

  https://http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v125/n4/full/5603565a.html

   

  If you simply mix vit. C and vit. E, the absorption of vit. C might be very much reduced without mixing it with additional solvents and buffers.

If you want to ensure the best penetration, apply vit. C first, wait for it to be absorbed and then apply vit. E.  Thus you will get a high penetration and the C + E combo will potentiate the prevention of UV damage.  If you want to further enhance vit. C penetration, apply it after rolling with a dermaroller for product penetration (if your skin can handle the stinging) or apply it without dermarolling but occlude it with plastic foil for 15 minutes. Regular application every other or third day is sufficient. The half-life of vit. C in the skin is about four days. (The amount of vit. C present in the skin will halve every four days.)

Don't do it the other way round (first E then C). Water cannot penetrate an oil barrier and vit. C is not fat soluble.

The main reason for mixing vit. C with other antioxidants was to enhance its stability in commercial products that have to be stable even after many months since the route from the production to the actual purchase can take a long time, and it has to stay stable after the purchase as well.  

  The advantage of a homemade vit. C serum kept in a dark, airtight container in the fridge is that it penetrates the skin without any additional chemicals and it keeps stable for a relatively long time.

  Some vit. C + E serums use fat soluble forms of vit. C. In a study concerning topical vit. C skin penetration, only the ascorbic acid form increased the levels of ascorbic acid in the skin. The other forms didn’t:

“Derivatives of ascorbic acid including magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, ascorbyl-6-palmitate, and dehydroascorbic acid did not increase skin levels of L-ascorbic acid.”

  https://http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11207686

   

  It doesn’t prove that it had no effect on collagen production since this was not studied but further studies are necessary to find out.