dermarolling facial expression line

[Kanada]

I'm lookin for a way to treat facial expression lines,commonly referred to as laugh lines, both cheeks have ripples of them whenever I smile. What works?  Dermarolling, copper pepides, vitamine c/d/f  serum, light sti,. high frequency ony other mnchinery ?  Any advice would be appreciated!

[soon]

Hi Kanada

I'm fairly new to derma rolling (just completed my forth session) so by no means an expert. I have researched various skin related things so here's my views & experience to help you decide what's right for you.

I single needle scars/lines then use a 1mm roller every 4wks on my face. Then copper mask & infadolan as per Sarah's instructions.

Most days I use vit c and Retin A.

Vit C is an antioxidant and Retin A is proven to reduce wrinkles. (They both do many things you can Google it & get heaps of info.)

Every few days I use Glycolic acid 10% it helps remove old skin cells and I believe like dermarolling helps with product penetration.

Mornings I use a sun screen with a moisturiser.

RESULTS

My skin has never looked better. I've noticed my pores getting smaller, my tiny brow lines etc getting fainter. My skin kinda glows now & is more even.

I have noticed I can't stop Retin A as lines seem to deepen. Hopefully over time with derma rolling that may change.

I try and judge by how my skin is looking/feeling as to what it needs. Like, if its flackey I will use glycol to peel it...if its dry leave it from exfolliators & use infadolan.

I don't think lasers work any better than dermarolling but more educated people can help you with that.

The only way I know of to completely remove lines (temporarily) would be Dermal fillers..restylane etc

Maybe someone who's been derma rolling for years could let us know results on this one.

What I eat affects everything....skin, hormones, mood..... its all related.

I've just started dry brushing my entire body. I think its meant to help remove toxins & thickens skin. It feels great. Maybe Sarah could start to sell a line of skin brushes "hint, hint "

I've tried various creams & really feel this is best.

Hope it helps,

Cheers soon

[SarahVaughter]

A dermaroller can only affect the skin and not the underlying structures.



The deepening of skin folds/lines is caused by:

  -loosening of ligament attachments that attach the skin to the underlying tissues and to the bone

  -loss of skin elasticity

  -loss of fat

  -gravitational forces

A dermaroller can improve only one of them and that is the loss of skin elasticity.             

                 

  Wrinkles between the eyes, above the lips or on the forehead respond well to dermarolling but the nasolabial lines or marionette lines deepen due to the dropping down of underlying structures of the face. It is more a crease than a wrinkle and a dermaroller has a very limited effect on creases.  It can slightly thicken the skin but it cannot solve the cause of the creases.      You should use our 1.5 mm ONE LINER dermaroller (or 2 mm ONE LINER) on the lines  for intensive scar or wrinkle treatment and a regular 1 mm dermaroller (or longer) to tighten the facial skin..

If you tighten the  facial skin by dermarolling it will likely reduce the nasolabial fold  but it doesn't address the main cause – the drop down of fat and other  structures under the skin.





  Since you say you have them whenever you smile, I have to assure you that it is completely normal and even children's skin ripples and creases when they smile (and to a certain point even when they do not smile). When you smile, the skin has to crease - there is no other way.



Expression lines around the eyes or on the forehead can be diminished by dermarolling or by paralyzing the involved muscles by Botox but you certainly do not want paralyzing your smiling ability..  

@Soon: I am delighted you have good results! Thank you for informing us about your regimen. You are in fact our first customer reporting pore size reduction. I hope more customers achieved the same but just did not report it.

                     

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[soon]

Hmmm, I probably wasn't clear enough about pores.

I mean the holes left behind from "blackhead" pimples.

They are definitely getting smaller.

I was wondering if anyone has completely removed a facial wrinkle via derma rolling?

Sarah, could restylane be an option for Kanada's issue as it doesn't "freeze" like botox? Or isn't it worth the cost etc.

Cheers soon

[Kanada]

Hi Soon & Sarah,   I noticed an immediate improvment in my skin after starting the Retin A and dermarolling with the 0.5, copper mask and infadolan...   tonight I rolled my hands again.  I've decided to try fillers & botox, appointment at the end of the month.  I'm a redhead, burn easily so I've been using sun screen for years.  Do you use Retin A at night and vitamin  C  in morning or does it matter?  I'll order the one liner 1.5 next time...  going to need more Retin A,copper masks & Vit C to keep my skin in good shape.  I haven't used the glycolic acid yet though...  have to get some of that.  Thanks for the advice.

[soon]

Hi Kanada,

I use Vit C & Retin A at night.

Vit c goes on first then wait 30 minutes & apply Retin A after.

You can use one product & alternate nights between them.

Incase you don't know.... copper & vit c don't work together so use them on separate

nights or 12hrs apart.

Cheers soon

[SarahVaughter]

@Soon:

Blackhead pimples are basically "plugs" in the pores. The blackhead is oxidized sebum produced by sebaceous glands in the pore. So the holes you are talking about are pores.

   

  Restylan would be an option but it only lasts between 3-9 months. The more muscle movement in the area, the shorter it lasts.

   

  There is very much muscle movement around the lips.. It also depends how quickly your body metabolize it.

   

  @Kanada:

   

  I am always so happy when I hear someone got improvement. It is not easy to improve skin, even a little improvement is very good news.

   

  Both A-Ret and vit. C have to be applied in the evening because they are sensitive to light. They stay in the skin for several days so you do not have to apply them every day.

   

  You can do it in turns- one day vit.C, the next day A-Ret or even less frequently - each twice a week or so. If your skin gets dry, apply it less often.

[Kanada]

Thanks Sarah & Soon,

I didn't realize the vit C had to go on in the evening.  I've been using it in morning followed half an hour later with sunscreen because I was using copper peptides at night.  Now I know.  Are copper peptides sensitive to sunlight?   Can I use them every morning or should I be skipping days.  Perhaps I'm in too big a hurry and need to slow down.  Is retin A okay with copper peptides?  I am very happy with the improrved skin tone I see happening.  Still only using the 0.5 derma roller every 3 or 4 days and rolling lightly, no blood, working up the courage to use the 1.5 roller.   I appreciate the guidance.

[soon]

Hey Kanada

You sound like me a few months ago, trying to work it all out.

It can be confusing especially if like me your used to some "brand" cream you put on once not various items that you layer.

I was using a lot at first but now I do less as I don't want to "strip" my skin.

I think Vit C & Copper can be used AM or PM but you should always wear sunscreen after them.

As Sarah has stated in other posts you don't need to apply vit c or Retin A every night, you can alternate them. Personally I use both most nights cuz for me it works. I also use Glycolic or salicyic before hand as I'm trying to get rid "blackheads" & have oily T zone.

My sister has to use Retin A every 2nd night as she flakes.

Copper doesn't need to be used everyday.

I generally use it every 4th night.

It can not be used with vit C but ok with Retin A.  Just wait 30 mins as with vit c. Personally I just use the Copper mask alone.

Sarah's posted great info on copper....

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Best-Skin-Care-Routine /a>

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Copper-peptides /a>

One other product I just started to use in the morning is hyaluronic acid. It's got good/bad points so I will see how my skin reacts for a month or so.

I know its hard cuz every product out there can seem like a miracle That's what I really like about Sarah....she's straight forward & truthful about things. I'm a huge fan as before this site I wasted time & money.

The way I think about my routine is

AM nourish & protect.

PM exfoliate & firm.

When I first derma rolled it was with a 1.5mm & truly its not bad. Now I'm a person who hates injections but find derma rolling invigorating.

Cheers soon

[SarahVaughter]

As far as I know, copper peptides are not sensitive to light. You can use them every morning but skipping days is also OK. Retin A should be applied (every second or third day is sufficient) in the evening because it is sensitive to sunlight.

   

  Long-term application is much more important than frequency. In other words, applying vit. C once a week for years is much better than applying it three times a day for a week.

   

  The more is not the better. It's treatment duration that counts more than the quantity of applied product.

[Kanada]

Thanks Sarah & Soon,

I think I'm starting to get a system going with facial skincare, have so many other different skin products that I've decided to use the ones I'm not sure of on my arms and hands instead of my face.  So far no problem with marking from the 0.5 dermaroller, (I was cautious because of thin skin from prescription prednisone) so will work up to longer needles now.