Questions about incorporating dermaroller to MY skin care regimen

[kakalakingma]

>I have just started to use a physical exfoliant with hydrolyzed silica as the scrub agents. I plan to wait again 2-3 days before resuming, or should I wait for a full week just to be on the safe side because I don't want to exacerbate the skin condition?

     >If I were to use a chemical exfoliant such as a BHA or AHA, are the circumstances the same or different than that of the scrub?

>Say I buy both the 1.5-mm and 0.25-mm dermarollers and decides to use them both in my skin care regimen. I have read a lot of your threads and posts, but I don’t think my specific question was answered for me: So I use my 1.5-mm on a Friday, then how many days should I wait until it is OK for me to use the 0.25-mm for product penetrations?

     >Just to confirm, using the 0.25-mm (not immediately after) will or will not interfere with the collagen production caused by the 1.5-mm?

     >I have read somewhere that the conversion from Collagen III to Collagen I takes months to complete. I do not understand the benefit and logic of rolling even 5-6 weeks after the first session. You said in one of your post that at least the first stages of collagen production is complete, but pricking the skin with a 1.5-mm again will cause trauma to the same area, again, so wouldn’t it destroy the collagen III “in progress” that have finish just the first few stages?

>I have a fresh tube of tretinoin I rather not waste, how many days after using the 1.5-mm is it OK to apply tretinoin? 2-3 days? One week?

    >How about hydroquinone? L-ascorbic acid? I know you said you can apply vitamin C before, but you never give an exact number of days before you can resume acids such as these.

    >If I can tolerate the acids with mild to no redness, then it is still OK to use Tretinoin and vitamin C after rolling? Yes, I am also referring to IMMEDIATELY afterwards. And on top of that, some cheap Vaseline in a tube as my occlusive for the holes in the skin.

>How long should I be avoiding anti-inflammatory ingredients after using 1.5-mm?2-3 days? One week? I will be using 0.25-mm to give better penetrations to ingredients like these and acids, hydroquinone, and niacinamides.

>Last question here (for now): in your instruction manual, you give advice on Vitamin C serum, I still have questions: If I don’t have a 100ml bottle, is there is formula you can give me to make the percentage of vitamin C I want to the size of bottle I have? Say I have a clean 270ml toner bottle from an old product I cleaned with alcohol and washed with hot water, how many teaspoon of vitamin C powder should I add to make 10% vitamin C? 20%? You weren’t clear about percentage in your manual.

>I have clogged pores, will I make my pores and the clogged ones in a worse state if I rolled on that area?

[SarahVaughter]

I have just started to use a physical exfoliant with hydrolyzed silica as the scrub agents. I plan to wait again 2-3 days before resuming, or should I wait for a full week just to be on the safe side because I don't want to exacerbate the skin condition?



 Dermarolling speeds up skin turnover, there is no reason to exfoliate soon after dermarolling. You should exfoliate very much prior to dermarolling. That is useful. It will make needle penetration easier.

 

  If I were to use a chemical exfoliant such as a BHA or AHA, are the circumstances the same or different than that of the scrub?

 

  Yes it is the same. Both methods exfoliate the skin.

 

If the percentage of AHA or BHA is very low (as it is the case with ordinary skin creams) then you can use it. Again, strong acid peels should be used prior to dermarolling, not soon afterwards.

It also depends how old you are. Young skin has a high skin turnover - it doesn’t need to be exfoliated very often.  Old skin or acne prone skin should be exfoliated more often.

 

 

Say I buy both the 1.5-mm and 0.25-mm dermarollers and decides to use them both in my skin care regimen. I have read a lot of your threads and posts, but I don’t think my specific question was answered for me: So I use my 1.5-mm on a Friday, then how many days should I wait until it is OK for me to use the 0.25-mm for product penetrations?



 When the redness is gone and the skin has healed.

 

 

Just to confirm, using the 0.25-mm (not immediately after) will or will not interfere with the collagen production caused by the 1.5-mm?



 A 0.25 mm long needle doesn’t reach the dermis and it doesn’t trigger collagen production. Nevertheless - don’t overdo it. The more is not always the better.

 

 

I have read somewhere that the conversion from Collagen III to Collagen I takes months to complete. I do not understand the benefit and logic of rolling even 5-6 weeks after the first session. You said in one of your post that at least the first stages of collagen production is complete, but pricking the skin with a 1.5-mm again will cause trauma to the same area, again, so wouldn’t it destroy the collagen III “in progress” that have finish just the first few stages?



Wound healing has several phases: Hemostasis + inflammation, then proliferation/reconstruction and finally maturation/remodeling.  

 

In the maturation stage, the collagen is replaced by a stronger form of collagen and its pattern is rearranged, the wound continues to contract.



The formation of new collagen is not localized to the exact area of the pricks. It's a consequence of a complex would healing cascade. And the pricks channels have zero diameter, weeks after a rolling session. So the chance of hitting those exact same spots is very low, in spite of the fact that you have quite a high needling density.

I have to say that there is at least one professional microneedling practitioner that disagrees with having such long breaks. She claims that the collagen formation process works differently than is described in professional literature. See, this is a complex subject, even for professionals.  

   

  I have a fresh tube of tretinoin I rather not waste, how many days after using the 1.5-mm is it OK to apply tretinoin? 2-3 days? One week?

 

  When the skin has healed.

 

 

  How about hydroquinone? L-ascorbic acid? I know you said you can apply vitamin C before, but you never give an exact number of days before you can resume acids such as these.



 Vit. C should be OK to apply 24-48 hours after rolling. Make sure you apply it before rolling.

 

  Hydroquinone: If a high percentage is used excessively for a long time it can cause exogenous ochronosis (a bluish-black  pigmentation of the skin) which is more or less irreversible.

You can use a 0.2 mm dermaroller to enhance the penetration of hydroquinone to the dermis but do not do it for a prolonged time. The best protocol is  3 month on, 1 month off

   



  If I can tolerate the acids with mild to no redness, then it is still OK to use Tretinoin and vitamin C after rolling? Yes, I am also referring to IMMEDIATELY afterwards. And on top of that, some cheap Vaseline in a tube as my occlusive for the holes in the skin.



I once put 0.025% Tretinoin on my face just after rolling with a 0.20 mm roller and it took 3 hours for the burning to subside..

 

 

How long should I be avoiding anti-inflammatory ingredients after using 1.5-mm?2-3 days? One week? I will be using 0.25-mm to give better penetrations to ingredients like these and acids, hydroquinone, and niacinamides.

 

I refer to this posting:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-long-does-the-inflammation-stage-lasts-after-rolling-with-long-needles

 



Last question here (for now): in your instruction manual, you give advice on Vitamin C serum, I still have questions: If I don’t have a 100ml bottle, is there is formula you can give me to make the percentage of vitamin C I want to the size of bottle I have? Say I have a clean 270ml toner bottle from an old product I cleaned with alcohol and washed with hot water, how many teaspoon of vitamin C powder should I add to make 10% vitamin C? 20%? You weren’t clear about percentage in your manual.  

 

It should be about 10% vit. C but not everybody can handle this because 10% is bit sticky. In that case make it weaker.



19 parts of water and 1 part of vit. C powder makes roughly 5% vit C solution.



  9 parts of water and 1 part of vit. C makes roughly a 10% vit. C solution.



 

I have clogged pores, will I make my pores and the clogged ones in a worse state if I rolled on that area?



Rolling should actually unclog the pores because it speeds up the skin turnover.

[kakalakingma]

Hi Sarah,

Do you think Vitamin K is more effective in under eyes circles if I use 0.25-mm roller?