Copper peptides

[SarahVaughter]

John is my husband. He has a Chemistry Ph.D.

Hydrolized soy protein (usually made from gene-modified soy) is just a emulsifier and pigment binder. Nothing too special about that really.

https://http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080319095952AAo64Ih

https://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-hydrolyzed_vegetable_protein

[kakalakingma]

Ah! Wonderful. He should join the discussion! Ask him about forumlations and stuff! Does he use your account and chat with forum members or has it been just you? lol

He should formulate products for you to sell. lol

[kakalakingma]

For anyone interested in the definitions of ingredients provided by Dr. Loren Pickart.

"GHK-Copper

A human copper peptide complex - GHK-Cu (glycyl-l-histidyl-l-lysine:copper(II)). The tripeptide, GHK, discovered by Dr. Pickart, is generated by proteolysis after tissue injury. Its high affinity for copper(II) allows it to obtain copper from carrier molecules such as albumin and form GHK-Cu.

When injected into skin or applied to the skin’s surface, GHK-Cu activates the processes of removal of damaged scar tissue and deposition of new tissue. Francois Maquart and colleagues at Reims have presented evidence that GHK-Cu is the inducer of the second phase of healing when skin remodeling processes remove scars and tissue debris while rebuilding healthy skin. Laboratory evidence indicates that GHK-Cu concomitantly stimulates the degradation of existing collagen and synthesis of new collagen. At the molecular level, GHK-Cu aids the rebuilding of new skin by increasing angiogenesis, the production of m-RNA for collagen, elastin, proteoglycans, glycosaminoglycans and decorin, while it also stimulates the m-RNA production of, and synthesis of, certain metalloproteinases and anti-proteases that clear damaged protein and remove scars. In addition, it suppresses secretion of scar-forming TGF-beta-1 by fibroblasts. GHK-Cu acts indirectly as a chemoattractant for cells that stimulate repair, such as macrophages and mast cells, which release protein growth factor proteins that stimulate tissue repair.

GHK-Cu also possess anti-inflammatory actions and may function in humans as a circulating non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. After episodes of tissue damage, ferric ion is released from ferritin and catalyzes damaging tissue oxidations. GHK- Cu counters this action by blocking ferritin channels, and the release of oxidizing iron ions. GHK blocks the oxidation of low density lipoproteins by loosely bound copper. Interleukin-1-beta is also released after tissue injury producing cellular damage. At hormonal levels, GHK-Cu prevents damage to pancreatic cells by interleukin-1."

"Hydrolyzed Soy Protein

Hydrolyzed soy protein (glycine soja) is derived from soybeans and broken down by water to form a complex with copper to produce copper peptides. See copper peptides."

There is another page in which he provide organized and brief and easy to read table of comparing peptides including his first and second generations of copper peptides. LINK

[kakalakingma]

Hi forum members and guests,

    I have found another article spotlighting on copper peptide by Dr. Torodov from www.smartskincare.com. I have pasted the entire article below if you are interested in reading his findings on copper peptide

"Copper peptides: Can you 'repair' a wrinkle?

If aging, as some say, is a disease, then wrinkles can be viewed as small, improperly healed wounds. Indeed wrinkles are characterized by incorrect deposition of collagen and imperfect skin cell layering, which is also seen in healed wounds albeit on a much larger scale. If so, could the agents that modify the process of wound healing (by minimizing scar formation and improving skin remodeling) have a potential to prevent or even reduce wrinkles? Well, possibly. A good example of a wound-healing agent that appears to also have anti-wrinkle potential is the class of compounds called copper peptides.

What exactly are copper peptides and how can they boost skin rejuvenation? Generally speaking, peptides are small fragments of proteins. (And the proteins are the key building blocks of most living tissues.) Certain kinds of peptides have an avid affinity for copper, to which they bind very tightly. The resulting compound consisting of a peptide and a copper atom has become known as a copper peptide.

The benefits of copper peptides for tissue regeneration were discovered by Dr. Loren Pickart in the 1970s. He found and patented a number of specific copper peptides (in particular, GHK copper peptides or GHK-Cu) that were particularly effective in healing wounds and skin lesions as well as some gastrointestinal conditions. One of the end results of this research was Iamin gel approved by the FDA for the treatment of acute and chronic wounds and ulcers.

A lot of substances can have a positive effect on wound healing. A distinctive feature of GHK copper peptides is that they reduce scar tissue formation while stimulating normal skin remodeling. In other words, they help better restore the damaged area to its original look.

The mechanism of copper peptide action is relatively complex. GHK-Cu induces the degradation of "extra-large" collagen aggregates found in scars and promotes the synthesis of smaller more regular collagen found in normal skin. It also promotes the synthesis of elastin, proteoglycans, glycosaminoglycans and other components of skin matrix. Other important effects of GHK-Cu include the ability to regulate the growth rate and migration of different types of cells; significant anti-inflammatory action; and the ability to prevent the release of oxidation-promoting iron into the tissues. The net result is a faster, better and "cleaner" healing.

You might say it's nice to have cleanly healed wounds, but what about people who do not have any wounds or ulcerations to heal? Can copper peptides be useful for regular skin protection and rejuvenation? It appears that they can. However, while the wound healing effects of copper peptide have been investigated and documented in many studies, much less research has been done so far on their cosmetic and anti-aging use. The available evidence indicated the following potential skin benefits:

    * Many existing skin care treatments are based on the concept of removing the outermost or even deeper layers of the skin. The resulting healing process stimulates skin remodeling leading to smoother, younger looking skin. Since copper peptides optimize healing and improve skin remodeling, then can augment the effect of treatments based on various forms of controlled skin injury. In particular, copper peptides can be useful after various forms of laser resurfacing, dermabrasion, and chemical peels. IMPORTANT: If you are considering using copper peptides after a particular procedure, make sure to discuss it with your physician.

    * Copper peptides are effective against various forms of skin irritation, mainly due to their anti-inflammatory effects. Skin irritation, even in the absence of open lesions, dramatically accelerates skin aging by promoting the formation of free radicals and other toxic byproducts. Some common skin rejuvenation treatments, such as tretinoin (Retin A, Renova) and alpha hydroxy acids, can cause irritation. If during treatment you experience skin irritation for an extended period of time, your skin will likely end up in a worse shape than when you started. In many cases, copper peptides can reduce or eliminate the irritation and help maximize treatment benefits.

    * It is always easier to prevent the damage than to fix it later. To a significant degree, skin aging is caused by the accumulation of minor day-to-day damage from sun, wind, detergents, acne, abrasions and so forth. As these minute lesions heal, they leave microscopic imperfections, which, eventually, accumulate to become visible signs of aging. While it remain to be further researched, it appears that copper peptide can help minimize the damage from daily wear and tear of the skin. For instance, one study demonstrated that copper peptides helped recover skin integrity after exposure to SLS, a common detergent found in many shampoos, cleansers, and dishwashing/laundry products.

    * It remains unclear whether copper peptides can reverse wrinkles and other signs of aging in the intact skin. Theoretically, it is possible since copper peptides promote the degradation of abnormally large cross-linked collagen (the one found in scars and, to a lesser degree, in wrinkles). They also stimulate the production of "regular" collagen found in normal skin. In one small study, copper peptides stimulated collagen production in the intact skin. In fact, in that study copper peptides produced a stronger stimulation of collagen sysnthesis than tretinoin (Retin A, Renova) or ascorbate (vitamin C).

At present, several skin care companies offer a range of copper peptide products. However, to the best of my knowledge, all copper peptides in these products are based on Dr. Pickart's patents.

Caution: While moderate use of copper peptides stimulates collagen synthesis and has antioxidant effect (by stimulating the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase), excessive use can have an opposite effect by increasing the levels of free copper and/or by triggering excessive production of metalloproteinases. Free copper promotes free radical damage and collagen breakdown leading to accelerated skin aging. Metalloproteinases can digest collagen and elastin, weakening the skin and causing sag. These problems do not seem to occur among the majority of copper peptide users. However, there are anecdotal reports indicating that such side-effects might happen with overuse or, rarely, even normal use in sensitive individuals. Ideally, a sufficiently large study is needed to better quiantify these risk.

The bottom line

Copper peptides are a promising skin treatment with a good safety profile. Their ability to improve the healing of various types of skin lesions is well established. It is likely that copper peptides may slow down the development of the signs of skin aging by limiting the consequences of daily wear and tear. Also, copper peptides may augment the results of the skin rejuvenation treatments based on controlled skin injury, such as laser resurfacing, dermabrasion and peels. There are also indications that copper peptides have the potential to improve wrinkles and skin texture on their own. However, more extensive and prolonged studies are required to definitively prove it. Also, it appears that copper peptides may cause rare but significant skin damage in some cases of overuse or unusual sensitivity. Further practical details of optimal selection and prdent use and using copper peptides products are discussed in Skin Rejuvenation Infopack. " (LINK)

I do wonder though, most of the research on GHK-Cu is on wound healing, and a lot of people wants anti-wrinkle treatment.. Is wrinkle considered wounds?

[emily100]

Wow.  this was like one of my dad's long drawn out responses....too detailed and too much to read in one sitting.  Sarah, glad he/she is helping you. yes, that is another matter.  Kaka, I am on several forums and they do not allow posting to other's sites, etc.  If it's done, it's done in a private message.  Of the four forums I am a member of, this is the etiquette expressed by all. Sorry if I offended you. I wish I could read your whole passage, but I just can't. The main point is:  Sarah is cool with it. So with that being said, I should be cool with it too. I just know how much she goes above and beyond on here, and it was strange for me to see all your links about buying other competing products.  That's all. Happy New Year!

[emily100]

yes, Kakalakingma.  We are good b/c Sarah is happy with your assistance and knowledge.  It still is not what I am accustomed to on the forums I am on, but who cares what I am accustomed to, I guess.  We are good. Sorry for worrying you.

[emily100]

And one question I have is this....I have some 8mpo surgical scars.  Will topical application of copper peptides help? The verbage you posted from various articles seem to say it's great for scars, but at what point in the recovery will it be best and do I just put it on top, once it's sealed and healed? (I am about to have some more surgical scars at the end of the month. That is why I ask....)  Thank you!   (Sidenote:  both of you are really "too smart for me" on this topic.  I just need the basics.)

[SarahVaughter]

Our forum is a bit different in terms of how much we let people get away with at the moment because we are eager to turn it into a thriving forum where people help eachother so that I don't have to answer al the questions. This forum still is tiny compared to other forums, and "Kaka" started to answer people's questions quite thoroughly and in my eyes satisfactorily. If he would just be posting "buy this" links we would have banned him a long time ago.

I'll check out the details on Copper peptides and surgery scars and come with an answer later. Or perhaps Kaka can come up with a clear, concise and authorative answer?

[kakalakingma]

Hi Sarah and Emily,

Look, I think it is more likely in forums generated by companies selling their own set of products that may have that type of business mentality and the worries with it. I understand that perspective. But I do not know how many time I have say it in order to satisfy your worry that I mean no harm intentionally. I am a 20 year old who happens to be a skin care junkie. I just like to share information!

I have no authoritative power over anyone or anything on this forum. Funny though, now I feel like helping people in this forum beyond the basics (i.e., giving lots of information and product suggestions) is a blessing and a curse. I get the “thank you” and then I also get the worries from the administrator… oh, and don’t forget from sweet Emily. LOL. Will this be my demise? I mean, I think what I am doing is altruistic in a sense. I never expect to earn anything in return. I just type without knowing whether or not the person I helped really got the helped needed. A forum that is restrictive and controlling of what people have to contribute (without obscenity and foul language) is a forum that is hiding the truths from the public interest. If you have a very structured forum, all people ever going to get is what you want them to get, which is not the public interest. The public wants public information, not private messages. People have the right to know more and judge information for themselves.

Just think, even if I do not put a hyperlink on the product I have suggested, people can still readily place that name and Google it. I just put the extra effort and place the link so people don’t have to open another tab or window. If you really think about it, I hope you would agree that it is really really harmless. Another thing, I make product suggestions on stuff that Sarah does not sell, too, for example, cleansers, toners, alpha/beta hydroxy acids exfoliants, antioxidant serums (including retinoids and regular retinol products), moisturizers and sunscreen. I even make the extra step and ask what skin type the person has so I can search for the right products are right for him/her. Not only that, I also provide citations of scientific studies for anyone who wonders where the science behind the product is at. Also, it is one thing to make suggestions it is another to say “you MUST buy this product!”-no I have never done that. But I guess now that making “suggestions” come with its risks. I am not getting paid from any other company and I am definitely not getting paid by Sarah (lol). It seems to me that it is only a problem when I make a suggestion regarding copper peptide, like that is where the line is drawn. Am I right? You start to question me on this whole thing on this copper peptide thread only.

If people get to know your company and assessing its integrity (claims backed up by studies?), product affordability (in comparison to other companies), product quality (good ingredients? irritants free?), product range (gels, lotion, cream, masks?), and if they determine it fitting for their skin type and need, they will surely give their loyalty to your products. I cannot promise you that, but it is the logical ideal that I hold.

In sum, I understand your mentality, but I reassure you I mean no harm. If you still do not believe, then that is way beyond my control.

[kakalakingma]

I can only find you information to the best of my knowledge. But if you want the best of the best, you definitely have to go to your trusted dermatologist or plastic surgeon. Okay, here we go!

According to dermatologic blog, Futurederm.com, this is run by dermatologist-to-be-student named Nicki Zevola (there is a picture of her in her bio; her skin looks flawless), she provide her knowledge on the available treatment on topical treating scars. She does not consider highly of topical Vitamin E, maderma, and aloe vera gel, but she does recommend silicone sheeting and GHK-Cu. (LINK 1; LINK 2)

I have included below studies she and I found.

---VITAMIN E---

The Effects of topical Vitamin E on the cosmetic appearance of scars

Failure of topical steroids and vitamin E to reduce postoperative scar formation following reconstructive surgery.

---MADERMA---

Onion Extract Gel Versus Petrolatum Emollient on New Surgical Scars: a Prospective Double-Blinded Study

Effect of Mederma on hypertrophic scarring in the rabbit ear model.

---SILICONE GEL SHEETING--- (product suggestion is ScarAway Long Silicone Scar Healing Sheets)

An Evaluation of Evidence Regarding Application of Silicone Gel Sheeting for the Management of Hypertrophic Scars and Keloids

A review of the biologic effects, clinical efficacy, and safety of silicone elastomer sheeting for hypertrophic and keloid scar treatment and management.

The role of the epidermis in the control of scarring: evidence for mechanism of action for silicone gel

https://http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/ot/pdfs/Selected%20Resources%20book%20MAy%202009.pdf#page=8

---ALOE VERA GEL---

Influence of Aloe vera on collagen characteristics in healing dermal wounds in rats.

---Copper Peptide---

I have already done a lot of research on this one so I am not going to post any studies. If you prefer GHK-Cu, then Sarah’s Copper peptide Mask is a great and affordable option.

[kakalakingma]

emily100;1053 wrote: And one question I have is this....I have some 8mpo surgical scars.  Will topical application of copper peptides help? The verbage you posted from various articles seem to say it's great for scars, but at what point in the recovery will it be best and do I just put it on top, once it's sealed and healed? (I am about to have some more surgical scars at the end of the month. That is why I ask....)  Thank you!   (Sidenote:  both of you are really "too smart for me" on this topic.  I just need the basics.)

 

I can only find you information to the best of my knowledge. But if you want the best of the best, you definitely have to go to your trusted dermatologist or plastic surgeon. Okay, here we go!

According to dermatologic blog, Futurederm.com, this is run by dermatologist-to-be-student named Nicki Zevola (there is a picture of her in her bio; her skin looks flawless), she provide her knowledge on the available treatment on topical treating scars. She does not consider highly of topical Vitamin E, maderma, and aloe vera gel, but she does recommend silicone sheeting and GHK-Cu. (LINK 1; LINK 2)

I have included below studies she and I found.

---VITAMIN E---

The Effects of topical Vitamin E on the cosmetic appearance of scars

Failure of topical steroids and vitamin E to reduce postoperative scar formation following reconstructive surgery.

---MADERMA---

Onion Extract Gel Versus Petrolatum Emollient on New Surgical Scars: a Prospective Double-Blinded Study

Effect of Mederma on hypertrophic scarring in the rabbit ear model.

---SILICONE GEL SHEETING--- (product suggestion is ScarAway Long Silicone Scar Healing Sheets)

An Evaluation of Evidence Regarding Application of Silicone Gel Sheeting for the Management of Hypertrophic Scars and Keloids

A review of the biologic effects, clinical efficacy, and safety of silicone elastomer sheeting for hypertrophic and keloid scar treatment and management.

The role of the epidermis in the control of scarring: evidence for mechanism of action for silicone gel

https://http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/ot/pdfs/Selected%20Resources%20book%20MAy%202009.pdf#page=8

---ALOE VERA GEL---

Influence of Aloe vera on collagen characteristics in healing dermal wounds in rats.

---Copper Peptide---

I have already done a lot of research on this one so I am not going to post any studies. If you prefer GHK-Cu, then Sarah’s Copper peptide Mask is a great and affordable option.

[Update: I have done a search on "surgical scar" on the forum of reverseskinaging.com and I got a several thread results if you are interested!



Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

Thread 5

Thread 6

Also, there is a fantastic and organized diagram showing the benefits of GHK-Cu.



Yikes, it is so big. lololol.]

[Update 2: from the research I have seen, i think your skin care regimen for surgical scar healing may be: gentle cleanser, gentle hydroxy acid (8-10% AHA from Alpha Hydrox), copper peptide (GHK-Cu) for wound healing and scar reduction and collegen production and anti-inflammatory action, Tretinoin like Sarah's A-ret 0.05% Gel to boost collagen production, an ointment like Eucerin Aquapor Healing Ointment or Sarah's A + D Infadolan Ointment for protective barrier , Silicone gel sheeting, and broad spectrum sunscreen (!). I am not sure if you can mix GHK-Cu with tretinoin, so you have to ask Sarah for that one. Maybe use them at opposite end of the day or on alternate day. Also, I think you use the silicone sheet occasionally and separate from other products. I am not aware of any compatibility issues with GHK-Cu or Tretinoin so I think you are better off using it alone. Besides, you have to wear that thing for 12 hours at a time.]

[Update 3: I found a video from Dr. Neil Schulz on How to treat Raised Scars]

[video=youtube;bSCkzr3-Vho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSCkzr3-Vho[/video]

I hope I help you a bit

Best wishes!!!

[kakalakingma]

I found this video long time ago, then I realize it would be beneficial for members and guests searching around in the forum to see it!:D:D:D:D

The Human Tripeptide GHK, Copper Switch/Treatment of Degenerative Conditions of - Loren Pickart, PhD

https://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogAmT4tH6-g

knowledge!

Bye

[SarahVaughter]

@Kakalakingma:

Just to be clear: We have no problems with you and we appreciate it that you post here!

Just to show that we appreciate you, email me at sarah@owndoc.com and we will send you a present :-)

[emily100]

Wow. Wow. Wow. I can't even absorb all of this, although I would like to. Sooo scientific and above my head in some regard.  How did you take an interest .... I mean, THIS DETAILED of an interest...in copper peptides, etc.?   Do you wanna be a doc or chemist or something? Ok, next thing is to say Thank YOU!!! and the next thing to say is "I am sorry!!!"   Truly. I see you don't mean any harm to anyone.  Thanks for all the great info.  

Now, Sarah, the other day, I ordered your Retin-A creme. Do I use copper peps and RetA alternately?  It's all so confusing.

I found this from one of the links provided above:

A product called Dermaroller is often reported to work well with

our copper peptides. It is available on Internet.

8.Using Retinoic acid (Renova or Retin-A) with SRCPs often produces

faster scar reduction. Use 0.25% to 0.50% retinoic acid creams which

are strong.

I wanna single needle the scars, so I know I am to put the Vitamin C on the area a few days before.  then, I guess I will single needle....and then afterwards put the Copper Peptides and RetinA on there (just don't know when CP vs RetA after the needling is all)?  Sidenote:  I have this fear of single needling. For some reason, I am so scared my scars will go in the opposite direction and then be freaked out.  I know it will be inflamed or red the next week or so afterwards, right? aaahhhhh, scary to think I might mess up something. Scared of risking it. My scars are very flat. Thin white line across my body (tummy tuck).  I would love for the line to be able to tan again and I think I read where single needling might cause melanocytes to come to surface and tan the skin again. Ugh. Just thinking out loud here. Thanks for letting me ramble.

btw, I've been using silicone sheeting for a few months now so that is good.

=============================

UPDATE:  Just bought the Skin Biology Scar Reduction Kit, which contains the exfol, lacsal, Super Cop cream, Sup Cop 2X. Pretty excited to try it out. I read that I need to start out very slow.  Instead of the emu oil, I am going to use Infadolan.  Think that is ok??  Also, I still would like to know where to fit Sarah's RetinA in there......and the Vitamin C....  so much stuff to remember. Will I ever get it straight, I have no idea! I guess if I don't, something is better than nothing. I just don't want to cause any bad reactions.....again, thank you to both for all the input.  Both of you are awesome.

[kakalakingma]

Emily,

    You can use Retin-A with copper peptide as recommended by Dr. Loren Pickart:

"How to Use Retin-A and Copper-Peptides Together

Retin-A can be used along with Skin Biology's copper-peptide products. Here is our recommendation:

• If you are using a copper-peptide oil-free serum (or liquid) version: Apply the copper-peptides first then your Retin-A cream can be applied lightly on top.

• If you are using a copper-peptide cream:The cream versions of copper-peptides with their fatty molecules may actually block the Retin-A uptake. So it may be best to first apply your Retin-A product, then use SRCPs lightly on top.

We can advise clients that Retin-A, depending on the percentage prescribed to them, might increase the uptake of copper-peptides applied directly on top. So our copper-peptides may feel stronger when used along with Retin-A. " (LINK)

Dr. Loren Pickart does not recommend Vitamin C with Copper peptide due to compatibility issue. I am pretty certain with Vitamin C and Retin-A together, too.

So here is the game plan. Apply your hydroxy acids and vitamin C serum onto thee scar and sunscreen in the morning. At night, apply accordingly copper peptide with Retin-A. This way, you get the benefit of all four VERY BENEFICIAL ingredients. RIGHT!?

Your best bet with any surgical scar or whatever scar treatment is with your doc. I bet your  doc recommended silicone sheeting, right? Stick with that first for a little while. I don't know if you should needle fresh wounds. Probably let it close first while having a proper skin care regimen. Don't take my word on this particular note, though, except the skin care part lol. I have no idea if there is any interaction between silicone gel and the ingredients in the regimen. I doubt it, though.

:D:D:D:D:D

Best wishes

[Update: Emily, please make sure you update us on your copper peptide experience and scar healing. Thanks in advance. Post it on this thread of make a new one for copper peptide experience or something. i would love to read your testimony]

[Update 2: I found two thread on surgical scar on this forum if you want to see:

Thread 1: Dermarolling fresh surgery scars?

Thread 2: anyone on the forum that has used single-needling on surgery scars...... ]

[Update 3: I say you pick Sarah's Ointment than emu oil. Why? The oil spread and drips; it's all fatty acids. The ointment sticks and stays in one place unless you sweat a lot. Plus, you get the benefit of Vitamin D and (non acidic so it is gentle) Retinyl Acetate cell communicating capabilities]