The perfect dermaroller/ skin care plan?

[thehalokid]

hi sarah love your site, and your approach in general!

I ve been useing ur dermaroller for a couple of months and read through all the posts yet i still cant work out the perfect regime for use of the roller concerning, prior, during, and post useing this product. I should add ive read the instruction and FAQ.

 i use single needles on a surgery scar, and a roller on the face, every 6-8 weeks, here's what i do!

for about 2 weeks prior to needling i dry brush  3x a week  (only my surgery scar)  useing an old toothbrush (plastic) and apply your vitamin oil cream 1x per day post dry brushing.

Then when it comes round to  dermarolling useing your 1.5 mm roller, I do as instructed, and for post care  I apply vit c, a half hour later I apply by your vit oil cream, I continue to apply vit c about 3x a week for 2weeks post useing the roller, but use the vit oil cream 3x a day for 2weeks post dermaroller.

I have now purchased your skin copper peptide product i just feel quite confused:(. I should mention im a male (32 yrs old) so im not used to this kind off stuff, but i have made a genuine attempt to get this  right. I have a lot of sun damage on my face, broken cappilaries,veins,hypopigmentation, and fine lines, (Im useing retin A to treat these issues for a number of yrs, but have to admit i really dont see a difference)

anyway my point is i am commited to making my skin better and so this is why i am asking for your advice! If you have awnsered a question similar to mine, please provide a link, so as to not bother you any further. Eessentially Im asking you for a plan on how to incorporate these products i have bought from you,  i.e. the  roller, vit c,vit oil, & copper peptide. (it doesnt matter if it is a demanding regime as i stated i am commited) I would like to give this a fair crack of the whip.

In the mean time i will keep reading again and again.thanks love your site.

[SarahVaughter]

Thank you Halokid :-)

The problem is that dermarollers are a relatively new method of skin rejuvenation and nobody knows the absolutely best, perfect regimen. The same applies to laser treatment, radiofrequency etc. Not everything works for everybody (or at least not to the same degree).  I wish I knew a wonderful routine that would perfectly work for all skin conditions and for everybody..

  Little changes in a routine are not going to make any significant difference.

  I think that your surgery scar management is very good. It often needs quite aggressive, repeated needling to yield improvement although the scar will never disappear entirely. It will hopefully soften and blend more with the surrounding skin but the tear in the skin will always remain. What you can try is to apply Retin A just after needling the individual scars. Apply it only on the scar. It will sting. On top of the Retin A, apply some Infadolan. To be honest, I think that fine lines and wrinkles look attractive in males. I am not a fan of Botox for males..

   I don't think that dermarolling will fix the broken capillaries.  I read claims that it could improve broken capillaries but I have not experienced it, neither have our customers who were hoping for this. Broken capillaries are sometimes (not everybody is happy with the result) successfully treated by a "vascular laser". Capillaries and bloodvessels transport red blood cells, containing hemoglobin. Vascular laser- or IPL wavelengths are absorbed by hemoglobin. In the hemoglobin, this absorbed light energy is transformed to heat and that leads to the thermal destruction of the capillaries.

A dermaroller should be able to partially fix the sun damage and hypopigmentation (depending on its cause).

If you want to achieve the best results, use a dermaroller for skin product penetration (up to 0.2 mm roller, up to 4 times a week) and apply vit. C immediately after rolling. If it stings too much, dilute the vit. C serum with more water. Vit. C doesn’t penetrate the skin easily and rolling will greatly enhance its penetration. Not everybody can handle the stinging though.

You can also try applying some antiaging or other creams after rolling. I am sorry I cannot comment on efficacy of any creams. I can only guarantee that if you apply them after dermarolling, their penetration will be greatly increased.  You can likewise apply the copper peptide mask after rolling.

  I'm currently researching the possibility of using hyaluronic acid in combination with dermarolling but I'm not ready with that yet.

 

Back to rolling advice: Then, once in three weeks do quite an aggressive roll with a 1.5 mm roller and use Infadolan immediately afterwards.  Try to avoid the sun and protect yourself as much as possible. The skin is very vulnerable after deep aggressive rolling.

I received several emails in which customers say they use Infadolan daily around their eyes and it slightly improved the sagginess and the lines. Some already swear by it and order it regularly.

Please excuse me if I haven't answered your question satisfactorily. I'm currently packing for a long trip in a RV all around Scandinavia and we leave today. If you have any further questions, just ask but there will be delay in replies throughout July. Order processing and dispatch operates as usual though.

Related forum posting:

 https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Best-Skin-Care-Routine

[thehalokid]

ho sarah great reply,

thats helps alot, well i figure im gonna be a cheeky chappy and ask for a little more advice.by the way hope you enjoyed your break away!

Ive been doing alot of reading and research in general so i have a couple of questions

1,  

 first off just to underunderstand you fully, your saying i can use a roller up to 0.25 mm roller in lengh for product penetration 3x a week, its ok to do this even though every 6-8 weeks im rolling with 1.5 mm? these rollers can be used in conjunction without negative effects correct?

2, concerning the vit c, ive read that it has to be of a certain concentration/strengh in order to have any chance of penetrating ther skin, somewhere around 13 or 15% i think (I cant remember exactly) so my question yes the vit c always stings  me when i put it on,(maybe cause i use retin a regulary!) but anyway wouldnt this mean i cant dilute it as it would fail to penetrate the skin barrier?

3, Ive read that vit c and retin a can cancell each other out so to speak, so its best to space these 2 products apart (around 12 hours) maybe useing the retin a in the night (as uv breaks it down)wash it off in the moring and apply vit c in the moring also! have you any take on this?.

4, Ive read alot about positive and negative effects of dr pickarts copper peptide! people are experiencing what they re calling 'the uglies' basically where the skin has a negative effect to the peptide! I have some resevations about useing the mask you sell because its quite highly concentrated, any thoughts on this?

5, youll be glad to know this is my final question, concerning daily skin care what do you think of this regime,

NIGHT- 1, cleanse 2, tone (wait half an hour)3, apply retin a (wait half an hour)4, apply a moisturiser (latley ive been useing your infadolin would you regard this a moisturiser as such)

MORNING-  1, wash of retin a, 2, Apply vit c (wait half an hour) 3, Moisturise

thanks for your time, its  always appreciated

p.s     any intentions to sell emu oil? im hearing alot of good things about it as a moisturiser

[SarahVaughter]

1, first off just to underunderstand you fully, your saying i can use a roller up to 0.25 mm roller in lengh for product penetration 3x a week, its ok to do this even though every 6-8 weeks im rolling with 1.5 mm? these rollers can be used in conjunction without negative effects correct?

 

Yes.

  BTW, Vit. C doesn’t penetrate the skin easily so it would be useful to apply some after rolling with a 0.25 mm dermaroller.

 2, concerning the vit c, ive read that it has to be of a certain concentration/strengh in order to have any chance of penetrating ther skin, somewhere around 13 or 15% i think (I cant remember exactly) so my question yes the vit c always stings me when i put it on,(maybe cause i use retin a regulary!) but anyway wouldnt this mean i cant dilute it as it would fail to penetrate the skin barrier?

    This is actually a very complex problem.  Our skin is designed to protect us and it does this very well. That’s why almost nothing gets through the skin. Vit. C doesn’t penetrate the skin easily. Vit.C starts to penetrate the skin much better at a very low pH – below 3.5. The problem is that our skin is colonized by microflora that basically protects our skin from colonization of harmful bacteria, fungus etc.  The effects of frequent application of a product with a very low pH on the skin are not known and it might disturb the natural colonization of microflora and the skin balance. Extremes are usually not advisable. Just like it is not recommended to wash too often with highly alkaline soaps it is probably not good to use highly acidic products too often in order not to destroy the normal skin pH which is complexly maintained and kept by all kinds of skin mechanisms. The pH of the skin is usually between 4.5 – 6. It varies with age and part of the body.

     The concentration of vit. C should be at least 5 percent and max. 20%. It is true that high concentrations of applied vit. C produce higher skin concentrations, nevertheless if high concentrations irritate your skin, it is better to use lower ones. More is not always better in that case.

Some people have no problem applying vit. C after rolling with 0.25 mm and some cannot handle it due to stinging. Rolling greatly enhances vit. C penetration just like it enhances the penetration of anything by temporarily making micro-holes in otherwise almost impenetrable epidermis.



Even low concentrations of vit. C will sting because it is still acidic. But it should be bearable.

   Update

I just found out that the pH of vit. C in water solution is very low:

 

A 5% solution in water has a pH of 2.2 to 2.5:  

  https://http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/ascorbic.htm

 

pH in water:  pH 2.4 - 2.8 (2% aqueous):

  https://http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/50817.html

 

  This is good news for its skin absorption. A pH below 3.5 is best for skin penetration (without dermarolling).

 

  Just don't apply vit. C to the skin several times a day, such as not to disturb the pH balance of the skin. Regular application every other day is enough. The half-life of vit. C in the skin is about four days.  (The amount of vit. C present in the skin will half every four 4 days.)

 

3, Ive read that vit c and retin a can cancell each other out so to speak, so its best to space these 2 products apart (around 12 hours) maybe useing the retin a in the night (as uv breaks it down)wash it off in the moring and apply vit c in the moring also! have you any take on this?.      

     I haven’t heard about them cancelling each other (I will look into it) but I know that vit. C doesn’t penetrate easily and as a water soluble vitamin, it cannot penetrate any fats. That’s why it should be put on “bare” skin and it should not be mixed with anything else except water. Vit. A is fat soluble.

 

 

4, Ive read alot about positive and negative effects of dr pickarts copper peptide! people are experiencing what they re calling 'the uglies' basically where the skin has a negative effect to the peptide! I have some resevations about useing the mask you sell because its quite highly concentrated, any thoughts on this?  

     Use it once without dermarolling to give it a try. I did that as well. I got some very mild redness on my forehead that disappeared very quickly and I must say that my skin was nice and tight after the mask. I have applied the mask already twice after quite aggressive 1.5 mm dermarolling and I experienced no problems myself. Neither has any customer reported negative experiences so far. That doesn’t mean they can't happen of course.  Some people get reactions to Retinoids and some to copper peptides as well.

 

You can also open the mask's sachet, don't take the mask out, take out just some liquids with a clean finger (it’s quite watery) and apply it on part of your skin to see what happens. Close the sachets with paper clips and put them in the fridge. Then you can use the rest later.

 

When I use a copper peptide mask, there is always some liquid left in the sachet. I close it with paper clips, put it in the fringe and use the remaining liquids later.

 

5, youll be glad to know this is my final question, concerning daily skin care what do you think of this regime,

NIGHT- 1, cleanse 2, tone (wait half an hour)  3, apply retin a (wait half an hour)  4, apply a moisturiser (latley ive been useing your infadolin would you regard this a moisturiser as such)  MORNING- 1, wash of retin a, 2, Apply vit c (wait half an hour) 3, Moisturise  

     That is indeed a good routine.

Infadolan is a very good moisturizer because it locks the water into the skin, it prevents its evaporation. Dry skin is not caused by lack of water - it is caused by excessive evaporation of water from the skin. The natural skin barrier that should prevent evaporation doesn’t work properly. Supplying dry skin with hydrating creams doesn’t work.  It needs some fats to keep the moisture in.  In fact, hydrating creams saturate the skin surface with water which makes the skin look temporarily better but this very temporary hydration actually increases the evaporation of water from the skin!  After several hours you end up with drier skin than you started with. You again apply hydrating cream and the vicious circle continues.

    Infadolan is an ointment, not a cream so it is greasy. For that reason it is probably not so pleasant to use as a daily cream all over the face. Many of our customers use it daily around the eyes and they are very content with the results. They also apply it on the back of the hands. It will stay there throughout the day. Very little will do.

6. any intentions to sell emu oil? im hearing alot of good things about it as a moisturizer

     I have a soft spot for emu birds.. they are so cute :-)

To be honest I think that almond oil will do the same job and much cheaper at that. I use it to clean my face in the morning. I take a cotton pad, slightly wet it with tap water,  pour a little almond oil onto it and clean my face. It keeps the skin moisturized and supple. I keep a big bottle of almond oil in the fridge and I refill a smaller container that I keep in the bathroom.