Melanocytes transfer for white scars and hypopigmentation

[SarahVaughter]

(from an email)



1.I have alot of hyperpigmentation (and hypo) on body and face.

had countless procedures on face with little improvement.  

  It depends what the cause is of your hypopigmentation. Usually, hypopigmentation is caused by a localized lack of melanin production and hyperpigmentation due to locally excessive melanin production.  Melanin is the pigment that determines the color of our skin and when our skin is exposed to the sun, the skin produces more melanin as a protection – melanin absorbs UV.  

 Melanin peigment is produced by cells called melanocytes. They aren't very deep in the skin. They are at the bottom of the epidermis.

Hypopigmentations usually lack functioning melanocytes and that’s why they are whiter than the surrounding skin and they do not tan. (Vitiligo is a disorder in melanocytes-function just like melasma). Another reason why scars are whiter is their limited blood supply. Needling can actually in some cases induce revascularization of the scar and thus improve its color.  

Needling or rolling sometimes, but not always, restores the normal color of the skin. Needling or rolling by itself often triggers melanocyte production.  You can further increase your chance of success with hypopigmentation by attempting a "Melanocytes transfer":  

  For hypopigmentation, first needle the areas with the single needle. Your next step will be an attempt to “transplant” some melanocytes from the normal to the hypopigmented skin!  Stick the needle many times about 0.3 mm deep (this really is very shallow - try not to go much deeper than that) into the normal-colored skin (anywhere on the body), then stick the needle several times in those needled hypopigmented areas. Repeat this “harvesting“ and “transplanting” of melanocytes. If you are lucky you may transfer some melanocytes.

  I am still researching how to optimize this procedure of melanocytes transfer, so check the forum later. After the "transfer", occluding the skin with plastic foil for a few hours will help them to "take root", and avoid washing that skin the next hours as well. I based this idea on successful melanocyte transfer experiments with Vitiligo patients. Occlusion may not even be necessary, as the melanocytes are "needled in" in our case, and they were merely topically applied in the Vitiligo patients.

Of course, the needled skin eventually needs to be exposed to sunlight in order to get a darker teint.

  The hypopigmented areas might have enough melanocytes but they are malfunctioning or dormant. In that case needling is also worth a try.

For hyperpigmentation, first needle the areas with the single needle, then apply the homemade vit. C serum (vit. C is a mild whitening agent. It also is a mild tyrosinase inhibitor. Tyrosinase is the enzyme that converts tyrosine to melanin. Do a test patch first. Keep using vit. C serum several times a week.

What you could also try is to very thoroughly clean a lemon skin. Using a fork, make the skin leak its juice and put it on your pigmentations. Cover it with plastic foil. Follow this procedure several times a week. If your pigmentation is due to inflammation, do not use the lemon peels. It would further irritate the skin. If your skin takes it well, you can apply the lemon skin juices after needling but do a test patch first. It will sting.

You can also try hydroquinone, which is a strong inhibitor of tyrosinas:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/How-to-treat-dermal-melasmaD/a>    

  If your hypo- and hyper pigmentation are not localized, you cannot use the single needle.  Use just a dermaroller.    

Post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation is usually also due to excessive  melanin.

2. Cellulite thighs and butt with minimal stretch marks.        

Please read my article on cellulite. There is not much to do about it:  

https://http://www.owndoc.com/dermarolling/what-to-do-about-cellulite/  

3. Under chin and neck = loose skin/slight turkey neck        

Dermarolling can improve mild skin laxity but it cannot improve significant excess of tissue.

Please read:

https://http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermarolling-microneedling-hype-realistic-results/

4. surgery and mole removal scars on back of neck and abdomen  

    Here, needling and dermarolling will be very successful.  Surgery scars, mole removal scars, vaccination scars etc can be greatly improved (but not completely removed). The best method is needling with our single needles. Your goal is to crush the hardened scar tissue and trigger new collagen.

[SarahVaughter]

>I was wondering if you discovered any more info with regards to melanocyte

>transfer and how it relates to dermarolling? I have white scars all over my

>upper body and I am interested in trying dermarolling or skin needling in

>order to repigment the areas.



  You should first try single-needling the scars. That by itself often triggers or "wakes up" melanocytes (skin pigment producting cells). You should needle the white patches and also needle a little over the edges of the white patch to facilitate the migration of melanocytes from the surrounding normal skin into the white patch.When you complete several needlings, expose your scars to the sun because melanin is produced as a reaction to UV (provided there are melanocyte cells in the area to produce it).                

  When you look at this photo by a customer with a vaccination scar, you can see how the scar tissue improved and the area became tanned:  

https://http://www.owndoc.com/stretchmarks/dermarolling-before-and-after-photos-from-our-customers/      

  If you do not get results, needle your scars and immediately roll all over the area with a 0.5 mm roller. The melanocytes are at the bottom of the epidermis, which is about the depth to which the 0.5 mm roller penetrates.    

You can also disinfect your thigh for example, needle the scars and then roll on your thigh with 0.5 mm to hopefully  harvest some melanocytes - then roll over your scars to hopefully implant them. Repeat this harvest/implant procedure several times during one procedure.  

Or needle the hypopigmented spots a little to prepare them, then attempt the melanocyte transplantation with the single needle only - insert it (not too deep) into the disinfected skin with normal color and then back to the hypopigmented spots. Repeat this, there and back, many times.      

Here follows an interesting method of melanocytes transfer but I am not sure      whether it is doable for home treatment. I have to think about it.  Instead of dermabrasion at the recipient site, needling would be performed (that is better) but I still have to solve the problem of how to safely harvest melanocytes with this method without risking a scar.

https://http://www.ijdvl.com/article.asp?issn=0378-6323;year=2008;volume=74;issue=6;spage=622;epage=624;aulast=Kachhawa

[csd323]

I had so much success with needling for hypopigmentation scars on my chest from an IPL laser burn. I was burned in Sept. 2009 and suffered with the scars for almost 2 years before I discovered this website/article on needling. I will try to attach before and after pics. Believe me, it WORKS!! I can have my life back now and wear V necks again. These scars literally made me so ashamed and I would only wear turtlenecks. If you have hypopigmented scars, please at least try needling. I followed Sarah's instructions and I had success!! Thanks Sarah!!

                     

Attached files

 

[SarahVaughter]

I am so happy it worked for you. Excellent! Since you achieved these results with our products, using our advice,  I've put "Vaughter Wellness" on the photos to avoid that our  competitors will put your photo's all over their sites, claiming you are  their customer :-)

We by no means claim Copyright on your pictures though - it's just that  we made these here useless for others to misappropriate them.

[Brett56]

I read this thread and tried to get rid of white scars and some large lighter spots in my forehead that I recieved after a traffic accident and this is my experience

For the white hypopigmented spots I used a dermaroller to roll the white areas and then I added a gel called Novitil that I found on forums for Vitilago and let it soak in for an hour until dry.

After that I used a UVB lamp that I bought on the internet to treat the area that I had rolled and put gel on, starting with 2-3 minutes and going up to 6-7 minutes after a few weeks

I did this treatment 3 times weekly but if you live in a sunny area you can also take some sun outside when it is strongest, dont forget to protect rest of the sking with high sunscreen protection

After 3 months the white patches was gone and has almsot same colour as the rest of the skin, so this procedure I can recomend to all that have hypopigmentation from laser and similar that is not so deep

Regarding the white scars that are deeper but smaller, I did not have same sucess as this is probable scar tissue that does not react to the UVB lamp and needling, sure you can needle the white scars which I have done for a year but they only get red a few days and then the white colour is back, unfortunately. For the white scars I dont know what to do, the options is micropigmentation that is problematic if you get suntanned and the colour does not match your skin, the other option is Recell but its is pretty expensive 3-4000 £ so I have not decided which way to go as the white scars have not improved with singe needling anything at all

Best thing with all this is that you can do it at home to reasonable price you need dermaroller,gel or psoralen cream and UVB lamp

Novitil I bought here - https://http://www.dermabest.com/products.aspx?type=1&pID=1

UVB lamp here - https://http://www.androv-medical.com/product/27/dermfix-1000mx-uv-b-lamp-for-psoriasis--vitiligo-or-eczema

Hope this can help others

[SarahVaughter]

Yes, there is a difference between scar-less hypopigmented skin and a white scar. Needling often softens the scar and improves its color (unfortunately not in your case) but currently there is no method that can remove a deep scar. Hypopigmented skin that has no scars is often completely and permanently re-pigmented by needling.

Consider buying a NB-UVB lamp.
More about it in my reply #13 in this forum thread:
https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/hypopigmentation-on-chest-before-and-after-needling/
   

You could try Bimatoprost on your scar and please report whether it works:

 https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Stretch-Marks-Repigmentation-A-new-possibility

This study concerns Vitiligo and Bimatorprost:

  https://http://www.skinandallergynews.com/news/medical-dermatology/single-article/bimatoprost-repigments-vitiligo-patient-skin/67821edc35.html

Bimatoprost and hypopigmented scars:

https://http://bmctoday.net/practicaldermatology/2010/05/article.asp?f=dermatology-qa-new-directions-in-the-treatment-of-hypopigmented-scars

[Smoothie]

I also tried this on white scars; both on a 10 year old, deep raised one and on some recent, shallow flat ones. I have only needled both scars once and exposed them to the sun, gradually afterwards, applying silicon gel in between.*

I found a significant improvement in the old, raised scar in that it is a lot flatter, softer and smaller. I also noticed that after exposing it to the sun, it is almost the same colour as my normal skin and you can barely notice it. I can hardly believe that I have been walking around with it for 10 years, tried silicon sheeting and Mederma and a lot of other stuff and nothing changed the appearance of it like the single instance of needling, followed by sun exposure, did.*

Thanks, so much, Sarah, for recommending this.

Unfortunately, the flat, shallow, white scars are totally unaffected by needling, as per comments by above poster, Brett56. They were red and slightly raised for a couple of days, as my body was trying to re-form the scar tissue, I assume. I exposed it to the sun after the redness went away and although the rest of the skin around it got a healthy tan, the scar remained as white as it was before. Needless to say, I was a little disappointed. I'm wondering if I should keep needling/rolling and whether it will make more of a difference over time? I also read by a dermatologic surgeon in the following link that medical needling followed immediately by the application of tyrosine solution assists with reducing the appearance of white scarring. I'm wondering how a civilian can source tyrosine solution; is it something that can be purchased over the counter?

Link to article with surgeon's advice on white scars:*https://http://www.realself.com/question/what-can-be-done-for-white-scars

*

*

[SarahVaughter]

Tyrosine is for sale in tablets as a supplement. Many foods contain tyrosine. It is widely taken by body builders. Tyrosine is the precursor to the melanin pigment.

   

  From the link you posted:

 

"I have had some success with repigmentation, regardless of the prior cause of the pigment loss, using a combination of medical microneedling followed immediately by the application of tyrosine solution."

     

  Piperine is also for sale:

   

          Stimulation   of Mouse Melanocyte Proliferation by Piper nigrum Fruit Extract and its Main Alkaloid, Piperine

             

             Zhixiu Lin1, 2, J. R.   S. Hoult3, Dorothy C. Bennett4,   Amala Raman1

             1 Department of Pharmacy, King's College   London, London, U.K.

  2 Institute of Chinese Medicine, London, U.K.

  3 Pharmacology Group, King's College London, London, U.K.

  4 Department of Anatomy, St George's Hospital Medical School,   London, U.K.

         

  Abstract:

  During a herbal screening programme to find potential repigmenting agents for the treatment of vitiligo, Piper nigrum L. fruit (black pepper) extract was found to possess growth-stimulatory activity towards cultured melanocytes. Its aqueous extract at 0.1 mg/ml was observed to cause nearly 300 % stimulation of the growth of a cultured mouse melanocyte line, melan-a, in 8 days (p < 0.01). Piperine (1-piperoylpiperidine), the main alkaloid from Piper nigrum fruit, also significantly stimulated melan-a cell growth. Both Piper nigrum extract and piperine induced morphological alterations in melan-a cells, with more and longer dendrites observed. The augmentation of growth by piperine was effectively inhibited by RO-31-8220, a selective protein kinase C (PKC) inhibitor, suggesting that PKC signalling is involved in its activity. This is the first full report on such an activity of black pepper and piperine.

 

  Or try bimatoprost – as I suggested in posting #6.

[Smoothie]

Thanks. I'm having trouble sourcing Piperine and Bimatoprost from the Internet. If you knew of anywhere I could safely purchase either of these products online, can you please let me know ?

Is there a way I could safely make my own topical solution using tablets?

Thanks

[SarahVaughter]

Tyrosine is water-soluble, but very little. You should use Phenylalanine instead. It is more water-soluble and it is converted to tyrosine.

   

  As I already said, Vitiligo is hypopigmented skin but it is not a scar. There is very little metabolic activity in scar tissue and what works for vitiligo doesn’t automatically work for scar tissue.

   

  In the studies below, they targeted just the hypopigmentated area by UVA radiation.  

  Unfortunately you do not have the equipment to do targeted, intensive UV exposure, so you have to expose the entire area to the sun. Apply a high factor sunscreen on the skin all around the scar to prevent darkening of the skin that surrounds the scar.

 

Phenylalanine and UVA light for the treatment of vitiligo

  R. H. Cormane, A. H. Siddiqui, W. Westerhof and R. B. H. Schutgens

  The administration of phenylalanine (Phe) combined with UVA exposure was found to be effective in vitiligo. Phe is an amino acid which constitutes part of the daily dietary protein, and when orally administered in a dose of 50 mg/kg body weight, it results in an elevated plasma level. Since peak concentrations of Phe in the blood are reached between 30 and 45 min after ingestion, UVA exposure was administered at this time. After 4 months (32 treatments) reasonable repigmentation preferentially occurred in the skin area of subcutaneous fat (adipose tissue). Apart from the repigmentation of hypopigmented macules, vitiligo patients can tolerate more sun than usual, especially at the vitiliginous lesion, and they experience no sunburn as a result of Phe-UVA therapy. Normal skin also tans very well

   

 

  Vitiligo Therapy with Oral and Topical Phenylalanine with UVA Exposure

  C. Antoniou M.D.*, H. Schulpis M.D., T. Michas M.D., A. Katsambas M.D., N. Frajis B.S., S. Tsagaraki M.D., J. Stratigos M.D.

 

 

  ABSTRACT: The administration of phenylalanine (Phe) combined with UVA exposure was found to be effective in treating vitiligo. Twenty-one patients with vitiligo were divided in two groups: eleven patients were treated with oral L-Phe in a dose of 100 mg/kg body weight and with UVA exposure and ten patients were treated with oral L-Phe in a dose of 100 mg/kg body weight and with UVA exposure. In addition, in the second group, a cream containing 10% L-Phe was applied to the vitiliginous areas. The best -+results occurred in the second group. No side effects were found in either group.

 

 

  L-Phenylalanine and UVA Irradiation in the Treatment of Vitiligo

Siddiqui AH, Stolk L·ML, Bhaggoe R, Hu R, Schutgens RBH, Westerhof W

Dermatology 1994;188:215–218 (DOI: 10.1159/000247142)

 

  Abstract:

In order to evaluate the efficacy of L-phenylalanine (L-Phe) in combination with UVA therapy for vitiligo an open trial (149 patients, 18 months) and a small double-blind trial (32 patients, 6 months) were conducted. Oral L-Phe loading resulted in peak plasma levels of L-Phe after 30–60 min and a slight increase in the plasma tyrosine level. Response to L-Phe plus UVA irradiation was positive, and various grades of repigmentation not exceeding 77% in the open and 60% in the blind trial were observed. An increased L-Phe dose resulted in increased L-Phe plasma levels but not in improved clinical results. The optimal L-Phe dose appears to be lower than 50 mg/kg/day. Although it is difficult to draw firm conclusions from the present investigation, we think that L-Phe may have a place in the treatment of vitiligo and its role merits further investigation.

[Brett56]

I just bought Lumigan (Bimatoprost) but I dont understand how I should use it in best way.

Should I first single needle my white scars and the ad some Lumigan in that area and then try to find some sun or sunbed or can it be used without taking sun.

How often should I ad Lumigan to my white scars, every day or once weekly

Please advice

[SarahVaughter]

Please read this forum posting. There is some advice:  

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Stretch-Marks-Repigmentation-A-new-possibility

     

  In the beginning, do not use needling to enhance its absorption. Start applying it without needling.

   The main problem is to target only the hypopigmentation and nothing else.

   

Let us know whether it works for you.

[JustRoyce]

I am also interested in trying Bimatoprost but I'm also having trouble finding a place to purchase it without a prescription. I read that it was advised not to ask your Dr for a prescription because your insurance will flag you as a glacoma patient.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.