Subcision-suction method for acne scars

[soon]

Thank-you FINELY.

I really appreciate the detail you give.

I hope the following isn't to obtuse but never seeing it done ....

How many times would you inject "squirt" saline into one ice pick type scar?

I'm scared I'm going to over fill it and it'll pop.

You do it multi directional, is that right?

What occurs after injections? I'm wondering how long scars looked full before its absorbed.

It's not clear to me yet what injecting saline versus just needleing does. Scientific info takes

awhile for my brain to store it.

I've read saline can temporarily fill wrinkles. If you've any, have you tried?

20% salicylic solution......ouch

I daily use a 2% and leave it on prior to Sarah's Vit C.

Once I made a 5% solution & found that it stung.

I'm so glad your getting some good results from it.

thank-you

soon

[FINLEY]

I inject the saline under the scar- not directly into the scar.  I most often do it only one time during a session, but I do have one box-car type scar that I have sometimes injected x2, once from above and once from below.  You can observe the saline filling the area and will see a small amount of "ballooning out" of the scar- it will look like a small bug bite.  Stop then- no need to overfill.  The saline will gradually be reabsorbed by your body.  Occasionally you might get a small hematoma, or raised area of bleeding at the site.  If that happens, I gently apply pressure to the area- do not press down hard.  I always keep ice cubes handy and hold a cube on area briefly after I have applied pressure.  It has been my experience that the saline is absorbed pretty rapidly- probably in a few hours, which would be expected in a healthy adult.  As I understand the physiology of subcision, it is the repeated releasing of the scar fibers, through multiple treatments, that produces the final result, not the temporary filling of the scarred area with saline.  Is that theory correct, to your knowledge, Sarah?

[soon]

Perfect explanation.....thank you again FINELY.

I feel much more confident going ahead with it.

[FINLEY]

Soon, I edited my previous post realizing I referred to my scar as an "ice-pick" scar, when I meant "box-car".   Cheers!!!

[SarahVaughter]

Please read these two forum postings. They contain some good tips from our forum members regarding the suctioning method:

   https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Indented-forehead-shingles-aftermath-(

   https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/14-month-update-skin-keeps-getting-better

[Dewydewey]

I initially posted in the "indented forehead shingles aftermath" thread but am adding my post here as well.

I am using Vaughter's  1.5 mm dermastamp and purchased a wine vacuum from a local wine store to try the suction method (thank you member Arachne).

I stamped my rolling acne scars and waited three days before suctioning those areas.  I have read the article you provided on the first post of this thread (three times!) My goal was to suction the areas once a day for a week and then every other day for additional week.  I am on day two of suctioning.  My question is if I could damage my skin?  Since we are using the wine vacuum as the suction and not for what it is intended...I thought I should reach out and post my concerns before I suction any more.

My skin becomes very red after suctioning-no bruising or hematomas, though.  I can see the prick marks in my skin complete with the red pinpoint bleeding marks.  My skin looks exactly the way it does when I stamp.  Because I have suctioned two days in a row, my skin has never had time to calm down and I'm just starting to have doubts! Any one else trying this technique at home?

[boafriend]

So how long are we supposed perform the suctioning if we are using a wine pump? And how long between each "suctioning?" (ex. 5 seconds every pump for 2 minutes, etc.)

[SarahVaughter]

From the study:

 

"On the first days, we used less

 negative pressure; but in the subsequent sessions, depending on

 the condition of scars, we could increase negative pressure (even

 to maximum -70 mmHg), length of time (not more than 4 s in

each pass) and the number of suctioning passes (even 8–12 passes)

 per session. ‘Effective suctioning caused oedema and haemorrhages

 in the subcised scars and led to ELEVATION OF DEPRESSING SCARS

  ABOVE THE SKIN SURFACE’ (Fig. 1f,g)."

"high grade of improvement was mostly in patients in group A1 who had almost daily suctioning in the first week of suctioning period"



The suctioning method is so new and this (cheap!) method is so rarely used by doctors that the absolutely optimal approach is not known yet and you have to basically improvise and try different methods.
The study used 0.1 bar (10%) underpressure and our pump sucks stronger but on the other hand, more suction is necessary because you're not doing a subcision first.

[Dewydewey]

Dear Sarah,

Would it then be safe to assume I cannot damage my skin with the wine vacuum pump?  I did not suction my skin yesterday because I am really fearful that this could cause broken capillaries.  Could this cause broken capillaries ?  My skin has calmed down and is not so red...I don't mean to sound negative but it would be my luck to end up with skin that looks worse than what I started with.

By the way, I used my Electrolux vacuum cleaner the day before yesterday with a crevice attatchment.  The machine started to have this horrible smell so I turned it off.  I'm feeling a bit disillusioned right now to think I may not have only messed up my skin but also damaged my beloved vacuum cleaner, too!

[cesamaddictaol]

Where are people buying these suction tools from?  I have really bad rolling scars and I am desparate for some help. Do you think the suction method would help me?  Has anyone tried the Vaculifter?  I'm considering buying one.  It's the only kind of Suction device I can find online that's intended for the face.

[Dewydewey]

Hi cesamaddictaol-

The wine vacuum pump was suggested by another member, Arachne.  I purchased one from a local wine shop.  It was approximately $12.00.  I am not familiar with the Vaculifter-I will have to search that.

I went ahead and resumed with the suction today (with the wine vacuum) being that the redness has subsided and this was my biggest concern.  I was afraid I may be breaking capillaries.  I don't even know if that is possible!  I am also just suctioning one scar instead of several.  I'm remaining optimistic and patient.

[cesamaddictaol]

Thank you for your advice.  How long have you been using the suction technique?

 

I went ahead and bought a cupping prodcet from www.massagecupping.com for about 40 bucks

If this site however at some point in the future desides to seel something affordable I will gladly rather purchase something recommended by this site *hint*

Dewydewey;3514 wrote: Hi cesamaddictaol-

The wine vacuum pump was suggested by another member, Arachne.  I purchased one from a local wine shop.  It was approximately $12.00.  I am not familiar with the Vaculifter-I will have to search that.

I went ahead and resumed with the suction today (with the wine vacuum) being that the redness has subsided and this was my biggest concern.  I was afraid I may be breaking capillaries.  I don't even know if that is possible!  I am also just suctioning one scar instead of several.  I'm remaining optimistic and patient.

[Dewydewey]

This is my first time using the dermarolling and suction technique.  I used a 1.5 Vaughter dermastamp, waited three days and then began suctioning with the wine vacuum.  My cheeks are my main concern and I am trying this experiment on just one cheek.  I had intended to suction every day for one week but stopped suctioning after about day three because I was concerned with broken capillaries (the area post suction was very red).  The redness subsided after about two days so I then resumed the suctioning-but only on one spot.  I'm hoping someone will post their knowledge about what causes broken capillaries...The one area I am suctioning has changed from a bright red hue to that more of a brownish hue.  It does not hurt but is very difficult for me to cover with my makeup.

I am basically following the program in the article that Sarah posted at the beginning of this thread and will now proceed to suction every other day for one week.  I then plan to stop suctioning for the following two weeks-reintroducing Vitamin C in the morning and Retin A at night.

This will put me to week four and then I will dermastamp and begin the routine all over again.

[Arachne]

I'd like to report some promising results with the vacuum pump I use to suck the air out of opened wine bottles. It is the perfect tool to use for indented scars caused (in my case) by shingles. I tried syringes, but they were too small and did not exert enough suction power. This does the job to perfection. It is important to make sure you get a pump that lets you attach the "cork" to the body of the pump (see photos of my pump). Some pumps sit on top of the cork without forming a single unit. That type of pump would make it difficult to avoid  wobbling when you're trying to apply it to your face. You need quite strong arms to work the pump horizontally against your face, as you must exert a lot of pressure against the scar to make an airtight seal. Mine is labelled "Bar Craft", made by Kitchen Craft a UK based company.

I've been doing the demastamp/suction treatment for several weeks now and can definitely see some improvement. I use a 1.5 mm dermastamp every three weeks. On the third day after dermastamping I use the wine pump every night until the next dermastamping session. I activate the pump about six or eight times, holding the pump's handle extended for a count of three or four seconds each time. It is important to position the end of the cork onto the scar in such a way that a completely airtight seal is formed. A little oil smeared on your skin helps to seal the gaps. When you do it correctly, you can feel the pressure when you activate the pump, and there is a tugging feel on the skin and a popping sound when you release the pump. You will then see that the skin over the scar has risen up to form a dome shape, a bit like a well-risen sponge cake just out of the oven. For the first few days, you may also notice tiny red prick marks appearing. This is presumably blood flowing to the areas left by the dermastamp pins. The scar looks much flatter and gives you an idea of how it will eventually look (with luck!) once the underlying tissues have been rebuilt. By next morning, the scar reverts to its indented state and the red prick marks have gone, but after a couple of weeks you begin to notice that the scar is not quite as deeply indented as it originally was, and this daily coaxing into shape is very encouraging. By the third week after dermastamping the daily reddening effect caused by the blood leaking into the derma stamp's pinholes during suctioning is not nearly as evident as during the first week. This is one indication that the skin has healed sufficiently, and it's time for a new dermastamping session, and the whole cycle begins again. People think I'm quite made to be attacking my scars with pins and pumps. But I'm now absolutely convinced that it works.

Over on the
                     

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[Dewydewey]

Thank you, Sarah and Arachne for taking the time to post.  I am very appreciative of your updates and Sarah for maintaining this forum