Subcision-suction method for acne scars

[Dewydewey]

Hi Miss S,

Most definitely yes.  Read my post # 11 on the "indented forehead shingles aftermath" thread:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Indented-forehead-shingles-aftermath-%28

and Sarah's reassuring answer in post # 12.

My best advice would probably be to stop suctioning until the redness goes away.  I know you will miss out on the benefit of the suction but it will put your worries at ease when you realize the redness DOES go away.  My redness subsided after approx two days of not suctioning, though (after which I resumed with the suction).  Once you see that your skin will return back to normal you can wait the couple of weeks and stamp again with confidence, this time adding the suction.

What has been everyone else's experience?

[cj123]

Using a suction device to get rid of acne scar tethering is something I might want to try. The only problem is that it sounds really scary. Can you damage your skin by doing this? I've seen pictures of glass cupping were the skin inside the cup swelled up like a balloon. How high does the skin go up using a wine bottle vacuum? Is it possible to overstretch the skin?

This certainly seems like a cheap way to do home treatments in conjunction with using the dermastamp, roller and single needle. The only concern is that it would lead to loose flabby skin in the suctioned area. Anyone have opinions on this?

[Arachne]

Has anyone used something like the Sawyer extractor pump? It's a tool for sucking out the venom left by mosquitoes and other stinging creatures. In the UK you can get a similar device called Aspivenin. It looks from the pictures as though these may give better suction and may be more suitable for our purposes than a wine pump, not least because they're intended for use against the skin rather than glass bottle openings! Suction pressure is said to be 800 mb. They have various sizes of suction cups. These tools look similar to the scar pump featured at the top of this thread, which is not available in the UK. I'm going to order one of these venom suckers and will report back.

[Miss S]

Hi Dewydewey,

Thankyou for your reply. I did stop suctioning after that encounter. It has been a few days but i still have got some redness on the cheeks. Maybe it has faded a little. I really do hope it does go away!

[Arachne]

My Aspivenin pump has arrived and I have tried it out. It is most definitely better than the wine pump. The wine pump is fine to get started on the treatment if you happen to have one at home, but if you don't already have a wine pump (and even if you do), I would definitely recommend  this device (or a similar one) instead. The main difference is that instead of pulling the handle outward to get the required suction power, you push the handle in toward the skin. You can feel the suction power and you can see the skin forming a dome shape through the transparent suction cap. There is a good picture of this process on the link I just gave. With the wine pump you have to push with one hand and pull with the other hand, so you have to exert opposing forces, which makes it more difficult to maintain a good seal against the skin. With the venom extractor, you are pushing with both hands in the same direction. Or you can even operate it with just one hand. It's not only much simpler to use, it seems to create more suction for less effort, and it maintains the suction for longer. I would never have known about this device if I hadn't happened to read an article in the newspaper by a woman who reacted badly to mosquito bites and said that she'd found a terrific device that really helped. It was her description of how it worked that made me think it might perhaps be usable for suctioning indented scars. It's a medical/health product too, so looks less incongruous in one's wash bag than a wine pump!

[SarahVaughter]

Thank you, Arachne for you interesting advice!

[CaliSubcision]

Hello Everyone,

Im new to this forum this is my first post so please be nice .    Today i had subcision for rolling scars for my cheek.  Right now it is still bruised, swollen, and slight pain.  I been reading about subcision and suction for better healing of depressed scars.  I saw alot of people asking about suction devices -- wine pumps, vaccum cleaner etc -- Ive found something on Amazon that might work a little better.  

https://http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040TZYBC/

I rushed delivered this device and expect it to arrive tomorrow.  I will try suctioning 1 day after surgery... Ive heard i need to do it right away before the scar fibers start to bind and cause depression as before.  Wish me luck!!

Great site by the way Sarah!!

[boafriend]

So most people saw some type of visible results after 2 weeks of suctioning? I'm on Week 1 so far and I just wanted to know...I feel like there's a bit more flatness but still, the indentions are noticeable. I'm leaving the country in 2 weeks and am graduating next Sunday so I want to squeeze in as much work as I can (don't want redness/swelling on day of graduation, and I can't bring any of this stuff abroad with me)

Thanks

[CaliSubcision]

boa which suctioning device are u using and how much suction pressure is used?

[boafriend]

CaliSubcision;3733 wrote: boa which suctioning device are u using and how much suction pressure is used?

I'm just using a wine pump (I have no idea what the pressure is). I suction 2 - 3 times a day.

I also wanted to ask...since suctioning I've noticed that the skin where my indented scars are (very up close) looks like there are many intermixed  lines (what looks like new skin...kind of like many small creases). Is this a sign that the area is healing still? I read somewhere from Sarah that if dermastamped/suctioned areas are still dark or discolored, it's a sign that the area underneath is still healing...any ideas?

[SarahVaughter]

Thank you, CaliSubcision, for your tip on the suctioning device. Please let us know your experience with it. In the study (mentioned in this thread) they started suctioning on day three after the subcision but starting earlier may even be better.

To Boafriend:

Small creases or any other unevenness in color or texture is totally normal after microneedling. The skin is being healed and renewed and until the process is completely finished, the skin can look different from normal.

[Ayame]

For indented/pitted scars, is it the suction method which is more likely to yield good results compared to the saline method? Or isn't there much difference between the two and somebody just haveo choose which he/she founds more appealing.

Basically i'm asking: is the Suction Method better or the Saline Method?

[Arachne]

From what I understand (please correct me if anyone knows otherwise), the saline method is a temporary solution (no pun intended!) which has to be repeated every so often. This method in effect uses a filler which gets absorbed eventually and has to be replaced. It gives quick results cosmetically, but I am not sure that it encourages the formation of new tissue under the scar. I have not tried it because I'm interested in a more permanent solution. The point about the suction method is that you are creating additional space under the surface of the skin at the site of the needling wound. These subsurface wounds remain open for longer than they would if you didn't suction them, and this encourages more new tissue to grow within the empty spaces. Therefore the suction method is theoretically permanent, but it takes a long time to get results! I am here to find out whether and how well the theory works. One can never be sure that scars wouldn't have improved by themselves without intervention, so as a control experiment and in the interests of scientific research, I'm also using the method on an ancient indented knee scar (acquired circa 1960). Will report back!

[Arachne]

boafriend;3736 wrote: I'm just using a wine pump (I have no idea what the pressure is). I suction 2 - 3 times a day.

I also wanted to ask...since suctioning I've noticed that the skin where my indented scars are (very up close) looks like there are many intermixed  lines (what looks like new skin...kind of like many small creases). Is this a sign that the area is healing still? I read somewhere from Sarah that if dermastamped/suctioned areas are still dark or discolored, it's a sign that the area underneath is still healing...any ideas?

 

Yes, I have noticed the exact same thing about the criss-crossed lines on the skin. As for the healing time, I find the dark areas have completely reverted to normal skin tone by the end of the second week in the three-week cycle.

[Ayame]

Arachne(nice name), from my understanding saline is supposed to be an permanent solution, but to be honest with you, i'm also not 100% sure.

I want to try either the suction method OR the saline method, only i'm not sure yet wich one i want to choose.

I'm trying to compare them which each other right now...

They sound both like things that can be working for intendet acne scars.

At this moment, i'm actually leaning more towards the saline method. However, the saline method, i still think it's a little bit scary to do this at home with the needles,

but on the other side, there are quite a few people who did this at home and the diabetic gauges are so small. Also, there was a woman FINLEY (she isn't on this forum anymore these days) and she was really enthousiastic about them.

But still, i'm not sure about it, it's hard!