Newbie with severe skin issues - please can I have some advice

[Cheeky]

Dear Firefox7275,

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide me with such comprehensive advice.  I had my suspicions about my diet maybe was not quite as healthy as I  liked to believe. And I am more than willing to change it if it will help my skin and health in general.  I suffer from tiredness and lack of energy a lot and I wonder if it’s down to my diet, it’s hard for me to gauge as I have eaten this way for many many years now, it’s a way of life. I have felt tired for as long as I can remember. What my diet consists of currently does more than fill me up and so I felt like it was an acceptable diet as I wasn’t starving myself of anything like that, obviously I was wrong…whoops! Around the time my skin suddenly deteriorated I cannot recall anything significant that might have triggered this deterioration.  In fact I was in a very good place, I was just married, very happy, my career going well.  My eating habits didn’t change as far as I can remember.  I really wish I could pinpoint something, anything that may go some way to explain why my skin changed so drastically but I just cant 

The breakfast is an issue for me but I am liking the sound of some kind of smoothie/shake.  I could stomach that. Time is a big issue in the week, especially in the mornings  so would a ready-made smoothie be sufficient such as the one’s Innocent make?  Or what about one of these meal replacement drinks you can buy? Or could I make the night before and refrigerate to have the following morning?

 Can I ask you what sort of snacks (that include protein/healthy fats) you would recommend for me to eat during the day bearing in mind I am a veggie?  Only thing I can come up with is nuts. I LOVE avocado’s I believe this are a very good food to eat, would you agree?  If you can point me to a website or something that explains and lists foods that are: complete protein,  essential fats, high glycaemic index carbs etc.. Sorry to ask but this is new territory for me and I am quite clueless as to what foods are good/bad or fit into the categories you mention. Oh the wheat free pasta is made from brown rice or something, will have to have a look when I got home tonight.  I buy it in the Wheat/Gluten free section in  Tescos.

So am I right to  summarise overall that in your opinion I am not eating enough in general and definitely not enough essential fats/protein?  I to confess I have some concerns that if I increase my calorie/fat/protein intake my weight will increase!

I will amend my meals based on the information and advice you have kindly shared with me and I hope this will help me internally and my skin also.  If I add such things as Quorn pieces, avocado’s and maybe toasted pine nuts to my lunchtime salads would that be an improvement nutritionally? Also vary the beans and pulses over the course of the week rather than just the same thing every day.

I have looked up DHA/EPA supplements and there are many to choose from but I can’t see any that have a daily dosage of 2 – 3g (assuming this means grams), the ones I have seen are providing 200mg EPA and 400mg DHA per daily dose of 2 capsule. I think I would need to take much more than the recommend dose to get 2 – 3grams a day.  Or did I misunderstand your comments regarding DHA and EPA supplements.   Do I need to take a general Omega 3 supplement as well as the DHA/EPA supplement? I currently take a Omega 3 supplement for Vegetarians/Vegans (300mg tablet per day) is this OK to continue with?

Sorry for all the questions!, I would like to hear your opinions on my exercise and how to healthily manage my weight as well as body shaping.  If I stay at my usual weight of 7st 7lb then my tummy/abdominal area is fairly lean and flat BUT even with an extra 2/3lb’s as I am carrying now it all goes on my tummy area, hence why I believe I am an apple shape.

Best regards

Cheeky

[Cheeky]

Dear Sarah,

Thank you for your reply.

As far as I know I have not have any hormonal problems, no issues with periods and no pregnancies yet. I had been on the contraceptive pill for many years with no problems.  The ONLY thing I can think of is I noticed a slight increase in facial hair, it went from being practically none existent to more of a soft downy feel and the odd courser hair on my chin which I needed/need to pluck…I put it down the hitting the 29/30 year old mark and just an age thing as some of my friends who are similar age to me complained of the same thing too.

With regards to the Fraxel Repair procedure I only had a very very light procedure, I later found out(lucky I took a picture of the Fraxel Repair setting when the doctor left the room)  the doctor did not perform even a relatively moderate Fraxel Repair on my skin,  let alone an aggressive one which my skin issues would have needed.  It was quite superficial so I don’t count it as a true Fraxel Repair when it comes to results.  According to another derm I later saw and showed the photo’s of the settings  I should compare my session to that of an aggressive Fraxel Restore apparently.

I would really appreciate if you can post what your customer said were her experiences of Derma Rolling and if she found anything else to help skin texture if she is too busy to post and doesn’t mind you posting.  

Man thanks

Celia…

[Firefox7275]

Stop apologising, I am a sad eternal student type who has lived and breathed the biological sciences since my early teens. I don't see too many vegetarian clients so you are good practice!

Bad news first ... you may well gain weight before losing or maintaining, if this is going to freak you out hand your scales to a friend or relative, seriously. Firstly remember if your body is deprived of nutrients and if you are lacking energy the muscles are probably depleted in their carbohydrate fuel glycogen. Since 1g of glycogen is stored alongside 3g water you may be unknowingly chronically dehydrated which also affects energy levels. As you replenish these stores, you will gain healthy water weight. You also have to reeducate your body to understand all the nutrients are going to be available at regular intervals so it can safely kickstart your metabolism. As you slowly gain muscle mass, your weight may stay the same but your body get smaller, this is because muscle is denser than fat - think of the size of a pound of feathers compared to a pound of lead. Change your diet first and as soon as you feel more energy make changes in your exercise regime to help you build muscle (=toning not bulky) and burn fat. You may genetically be an apply shape but you CAN change this through your diet and exercise regime. Fat gain in that area is encouraged by anything that stresses the body out, from smoking to skipping meals to binge drinking to foods high in fats or refined carbohydrates. Research proves fat loss in that area is encouraged by high intensity exercise - particularly cardio intervals and strength training using the large muscle groups - which you are not doing at present.

Breakfast: You can use purchased smoothies proving they contain plenty of protein source and whole fruits NOT fruit juice, but adding whey protein powder yourself is fine. Meal replacement drinks are not wholefoods and do not contain the many antioxidant phytonutrients important for skin and general health. Making your own smoothie in the morning with a stick blender can be super fast - you can purchase ones with a beaker attachment so you can whizz up the smoothie in it's own container, rinse the stick blender under a running tap, lid your smoothie and eat/ drink on your commute. Unfortunately you cannot blend it the night before because the antioxidants deplete (this is why some cut fruits go brown). However you can make it super easy using a mix of canned fruits (peaches/ mandarins/ pink grapefruit in juice, Tesco even have ring pull lids!), frozen fruits that need ZERO preparation (berry mixes are the most nutritious but there are tropical mixes for variety), easy peel/ no chop fresh fruits like bananas or avocados (both give a lovely creamy texture) or do a little chopping the night before (= fruit salad) and preserve with a little lemon, lime or grapefruit juice (vitamin C prevents oxidation). BTW only peel fruits that are inedible otherwise, there are nutrients in the skins of green apples and black grapes. You can freeze halved skinned bananas and you *may* even be able to use frozen defrosted sliced carrots, because sweet carrots work surprisingly well in a fruit smoothie and freezing softens them slightly. NOT recommending this specific product, just an example of what I am talking about  https://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-HR1363-Blender-Chopper-Accessory/dp/B000LYSSWW/

Complete proteins contain all the amino acids (building blocks of protein) are all animal proteins (eggs and dairy and whey powder for veggies) and I think Quorn is too. Protein quality is graded by how 'useable' the protein is - known as the biological value - with eggs being the gold standard, closely followed by meat and fish and dairy, then plant sources. Otherwise you can create a complete protein by combining a pulse (bean or lentil) with a grain, or a nut/ seed with a grain or a pulse with a nut/ seed. As long as you are eating protein little and often all day, it's not the end of the world if you combine two sources at, say, your morning snack and your lunch, as these should only be a couple of hours apart.

Essential fatty acids: we need omega-3s and omega-6s and these are polyunsaturated fats. Long chain omega-3s (DHA and EPA) are only in oily fish or marine algae (which oily fish eat!). Short chain omega-3s (ALA) are found in flaxseed/ linseed oil, and to a lesser extent rapeseed oil, walnuts, hempseeds and pumpkin seeds. Omega-6s are widely distributed in plant oils so you should not need to think about or supplement these but GLA is the one we need most and the ONLY omega-6 that is anti-inflammatory. The richest sources are borage oil and evening primrose. Healthy fat sources include olives and olive oil, avocados, any nut or seed, high cocoa content dark chocolate, wheatgerm and creamed coconut. Assuming your current EFA supplement is based on plant oils, stop using this when you run out because you need tens of grams of raw plant oils to convert to 1-3 grams of DHA/ EPA. Instead concentrate on eating omega-rich nuts and seeds to get protein and minerals too. These are the best I could find on a quick Google, no reason not to bump the dose up initially as the ingredients are safe, then drop down when you feel like your skin quality has improved after a few months. The important thing is to be taking steps in the right direction and giving your body something.

https://http://www.opti3omega.com/indexc.html

https://http://www.devanutrition.com/vegan_dha_epa.html

Forgotten if you eat eggs or not, sorry. If you do you can purchase omega-enriched eggs from supermarkets - Columbus and Goldenlay brands - which contain ~150-200mg long chain O-3s per egg. Eggs are also rich in lecithin, which is a precursor of ceramides, a key lipid (fat) in the skin barrier. Wyke Farms make a vegetarian approved cheddar which is in the supermarkets called Super Light made with veg oil instead of animal fat and Lo-salt instead of regular salt. Only short chain O-3s but it does provide protein and calcium.

You should find unbiased, sound nutrition advice on vegetarian charity websites or a government of any English speaking country

https://http://www.vegsoc.org/health/

https://http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegetarianhealthhome.aspx

https://http://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/services/hiv-sexual-health/links/diet/High-Energy-High-Protein-Vegetarian-Diet.pdf

https://http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodPatterns.htm

Wikipedia also has some useful information on individual micro and macro nutrients.

If you get into more serious body shaping, Human Kinetics publish 'Vegetarian Sports Nutrition' and 'Power Eating' which has some advice and recipes for veggies, both are evidence-based readable textbooks from a highly respected publishing house. These are not aimed at bodybuilders, they are for amateur and professional sports or fitness enthusiasts. If you want to concentrate on the nutrition route, much more commercial but still scientific are 'Feed Your Face' by dermatologist Jessica Wu or 'Wrinkle Free Forever' by dermatologist Howard Murad. They are not aimed at the vegetarian market unfortunately but there is an emphasis on plant foods IIRC.

Will get onto snacks later or tomorrow!

[Cheeky]

Dear Firefox7275,

This is great! Thank you for sharing all of this all this information.  I take time over the weekend to read it all.

Kind regards

Cheeky

[SarahVaughter]

The customer who has been dealing with a similar problem as Cheeky allowed us to post her emails and photos.

   

  Email and a photo of the right cheek from Sep. 12, 2011.

 Thanks for your response Sarah, I'm going to get the .5mm soon. My hopes

  with the 1.5 was for the lines connecting the pore to plump back up and that

  would hopefully make the pore seem smaller. You are right, when I pull the

  skin back the pores are much less visible but I have a bunch of horizontal

  lines.

  My skin was amazing 5 yrs ago. I did nothing special for it. Then just got

  extremely stressed, started smoking then went to dermatologist for

  congestion, one after another sold me stuff and gave me treatments that

  didn't work and maybe made it worse. After my first peel I noticed a ton of

  lines I didn't have before, I trusted her and went back for more and it

  became increasingly worse:( not very smart.

  I think the pigment you are seeing may be that I was still healing from the

  last time I rolled about two weeks prior to the picture but I will use the

  retin a twice a week.  Well, I just rolled again for the 4th time with the

  1.5 last night and may take a long break from that one and reevaluate in a

  few months.

   

   Email and a photo of the right cheek four months later (Jan 14, 2012)

   Yes, my skin has improved some and I am hopeful for even more success.

I rolled with the 1.5 3x 4 weeks apart and then rolled w a .5 weekly 3x.

My last 1.5 roll was 9/11/11 and my last .5

roll was the first week of November I believe. At that point I decided to

  take a break and see how my skin reacted long term. I have changed up my

  skin care routine a bit since my last roll to include adding the anti aging

  lightstim(that i am not super consistant with)and some other topicals. I

  never made friends with vitamin c but am looking at another type. I have

  done some light peels. I think one of my skins issues is the barrier is

  damaged or not functioning right. I'm going to look into a niacimacide(?sp)

  nag DIY serum.  One of the most benificial things I have been able to do is

  de-stress a bit. I am pretty sure stress  caused major problems for my skin.

  I'm planning to restart with rolling in February. I would say yes definately

  rolling has helped. The healing process does take time and I felt at times

  like I was going backwards but I do believe it's helping. I have read cheekys

 post and know exactly how she feels. Unfortunately the stress she is going thru

 with her skin is probably adding to the problem.

   

   

Part of her email from Jan 20, 2012

  I believe that derma rolling has been helpful for sure.

It's been about 2 1/2 months since I rolled last and I feel like

  the new collagen is really developing and adding a bit of fullness around

  the pores which is helping them to look smaller, shallower. But I think it's

  a combination of things as well.

                     

Attached files

[Firefox7275]

That sounds encouraging, Sarah! I am fascinated that your customer has been using an Anti-ageing LightStim with her dermaroller because I have recently purchased an AALS.

[Cheeky]

Dear Firefox7282,

Well, it must have been fate as this weekend my scales suddenly stopped working…yes really! I have decided not to replace them for now as under my revised diet as you say I may gain weight initially and I don’t want to start weighing obsessively as that will stress me out which will be no good for my skin if I am stressed and anxious.  I have purchased the Opti3 supplement and am now waiting for it to be delivered.  I also bought a hand blender and some exercise water bottles so I can make my own smoothies,  I tried it out over the weekend using a combo of tinned, fresh and frozen fruits and it take less than 2 minutes, I can handle that.  I am surprised at how filling they are. I also ordered some whey protein powder too, will add that in once it’s here, any idea how much to add to say a 250ml smoothie?  I guess it will have measurement guide on the tub. I plan to have one 250ml smoothie a day in the mornings, is that sufficient or should it be more?  I adore Avocado’s and can find ways to include them in many meals.  Is eating one a day too much do you think?

I do eat eggs but its once in a blue moon, so I shall up my intake and look out for the brands you mention. I looked in my local supermarket (Tesco) for the Wyke Super Light Cheese but they don’t sell it.  So I did a search and it looks like Asda stock it.  I don’t have a local Asda near me but next time I do pass one I will stock up.  Would normal cheddar cheese be OK also?  Most cheddar cheeses are vegetarian these days (as in vegetable rennet and not animal) but I guess they are made with normal slat and not lo-salt.

One more question….today I have brought a salad and a smoothie to work.  My salad today contains: mixed beans, olives, tomatoes, cheese (30g), avocado, sprinkle of seed mix and also some toasted pine nuts and quorn pieces. I also have a portion of unsalted cashew nuts, a kiwi and blueberries but I am not sure what else I could snack on? So if possible when you have some time can you let me know your thoughts on snacks?

Dear Sarah,

Oh my goodness!  Thanks for posting the email and photo’s from your customer who had similar skin issues to me. I feel a HUGE sense of relief as for the first time ever I can see that I am not what feels like the only person in the whole wide world who has suffered this deterioration with such visible consequences.  Although my skin texture is a lot worse than this lady’s I can see our issues are essentially the same.  To be honest the different between this lady’s skin in each photo for me is like night and day.  If I just saw these photo’s without any background knowledge I would have said there is no way they are the same person as the skin is so markedly improved, it almost seems impossible to be the same facial skin?.  For the first time in over 4 years I feel a real sense of hope that I can improve my skin using the right tools, such as correct diet, skincare and rolling correctly.  I am not after a quick fix anymore as I know there is no such thing but rather take the slowly but surely approach.

I asked some questions in my first post would you be so kind as to give her your advice? I revised the questions slightly now I have received the Infadolan and have been using the last week on top of my Retin A and Moisturizer.

1)   How best to incorporate the Vit C serum I will make into my skincare routine which already includes Retin A each night? Which goes on first and can they even be used together or will it be too irritating? Can the Vic C Serum be used in the AM under moisturizer and sunscreen?

2)    Is rolling pretty aggressively (I get LOTS of blood) once every 4 weeks the right method for my skin issues in your opinion? Based on the lady’s experience and pictures  you posted should I also think about including a 0.5m roller a few times weekly? I also purchased a 1.5mm dermastamp to use in the place that the roller is hard to use (in between eyes, upper lip etc) is that going to be OK? Do I just stamp the skin several times in more or less the same place? I would just use the Infadolan for a few days post rolling of course.

3)   3) I have used the Infadolan as a extra moisturizer for the last week, my routine is Retin A first, then moisturizer and finally the Infadolan one top and rubbed in.  Is it OK to use the Infadolan and Retin A at the same time?  I have had no adverse reaction at all and in face my skin looks better already and doesn’t feel so tight. Although the Infadolan is undoubtedly greasy the benefits so far out weight the cons of a slightly shiny face! So I will continue to use as an extra moisturizer.

4)   I am going to keep a photographic log as to how my skin changes over the coming months, is it OK to post the images on this thread?

Kind regards

Cheeky

[SarahVaughter]

1) You can apply vit. C before applying the A-Ret. First, let the vit. C penetrate into the skin and then apply the A-Ret.  Or apply vit. C in the morning, let it penetrate and apply the other creams.

   

2) I think you should combine the aggressive rolling (1.5 mm every four weeks) with a 0.5 mm dermaroller (twice a week, if it is too irritating for your skin, roll only once a week). Using a dermastamp is also a good idea. Try it on your cheeks too. There is a chapter in our instructions about how to use a dermastamp:

  https://http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

Start slowly, with just a few stampings and if the skin heals well, increase it.

     

  Basically, you will have to improvise a little, trying different approaches because nobody knows yet what is the absolute best dermarolling approach regarding your skin problem, especially due to the unknown origin of the quick deterioration of your skin. Every now and then, give your skin a longer break from dermarolling. The customer who allowed us to post her photos here also allowed me to give you her email addresse, have you received it?

   

3) You can mix Infadolan with the A-Ret. They both contain vit. A.

  More details:

  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/Applying-Vitamin-A-(Besides-Retin-A)-after-Vitamin-C

 

  4) We will be delighted to post your pictures. Thank you!

[Cheeky]

Sarah,

Thank you for getting back to me, this information is very useful.

I didn't get your message with regards to your customer's email address.

I will send you an email now in case you sent to wrong person or don't have my correct email address.

Regards

Cheeky

[Lainey]

Sarah,

My skin looks similar to Cheeky's, and I have had two deep dermabrasions. You are right that deep procedures can cause enlarged pores and changed skin texture. I wish I had discovered subcision and needling before I underwent those dermabrasions!

My question is about ReCell, a new spray-on skin treatment by Avita Medical that uses the patient's own skin. It is supposed to help improve skin texture. Unfortunately, it must be used after a procedure that injures the skin, such as dermabrasion or laser. I do not wish to undergo those procedures. Do you think the ReCell treatment could be beneficial if applied after and agressive needle-rolling session? And do you have any thoughts about ReCell?

Lainey

[SarahVaughter]

I have just answered your question here (it deserved a new thread):

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/recell-and-dermarolling/

[michaeldallas]

I would highly recommend you see an endocrinologist.  You may have a much more serious issue.

[kalea]

NEWBIE HERE.  i'm trying to figure out how to post a message but have not figured it out yet so i thought i'd just jump in here cause wow, MY skin sure is starting to fall apart.  some of it i suppose i should just accept: i will be 60 on july 3.  however, four months ago i was diagnosed with frontal fibrosing alopecia: there is a distinct pattern to it: everyone who has it loses their hair up to the midline of thehead.  i am very fortunate that i have curly hairl.  my hairdresser has been able to style my hair so that the remaining layer of it, not too thin or bad looking, cover what is happening underneath.  i am still, natrually, devastated that this is happening.  i am now taking Plaquenil for inflammation (i do have total systemic inflammation, inflammatory autoimmune disease....i'm doing all i can do to address the whole package...)but the disease keeps progressing.  i have a custom made wig on its way soon.....i just hope my hairdresser can style it to look like my hairstyle just a bit.......oh how i wish i wasn't having to deal with this.  it is just one of several autoimmune diseases i have.  and now it looks like i might have vitiligo....i've been noticing for several years that on both arms there are noticeable white spots...what looks like a loss of color on the skin.  now i see it has progressed....it is going on all over my arms.  not very noticeable as i am fairskinned, but still you can see what is happening.

i have always had a high forehead but not i truly look freakish......what i am noticing are odd areas of "denting" almost; ridges and white patches occurring on the top of forehead, and there are seeming areas that look like they have been outlined or something...many of them.  over both eyebrows it looks as if there are actually ridges...very hard to describe.

i dont' see my dermatologist for a check up on the fibrosing alopecia for a couple of months.....and i started looking on the net for any kind of information i could find, with my lack of descriptors for the situation.   if there is anyone here who might be able to help, i would so appreciate it.   i am really feeling awful about all of this.....it's just been one thing after another for me...........................i've been as "strong" and positive as i can be all along...but this hair loss thing, m y body attacking the hair follicles and killing the, is more than i can take.

thanks for reading....blessings to all..

kalea

[SarahVaughter]

I made a new thread to answer your question, Kalea:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/frontal-fibrosing-alopecia/msg3247/

[TMV82]

Cheeky,

the way you describe your skin is how I would describe mine!

I have experienced the similar skin deteriation, large porous skin and the pores create lines when I smile.
However I believe my skin problems were caused by four Fraxel Dual treatments( restore), and I feel the laser left holes behind, that look like pores and probably caused thermal damage as well. My skin really looks a lot like yours, not quite as bad but very similar!

I also had a short stint of acne between treatments , which I was given Obagi nu derm products, plus a night cream which I suspect may have had retin a.

I also swapped my pill and went to Yaz, I wonder if they could have contributed to this too. My doctor was quite adamant Fraxel can't cause this kind of texture and blamed it on natural ageing, however I have good genes and my skin was fine, only oily with acne scars but certainly no big pores. I have always been an avid sunscreen user and slathered my face with Invisible Zinc Sport Cream daily after starting lasers and I often found it was very hard to wash off, it could have contributed to my problem also. I am 30 and started treatments when I was 27

However the pattern of the pores/holes follow the laser so that is why I am certain they are from the laser or the laser made them pop up somehow?

Sarah, have you seen anyone who has had this kind of texture change from laser and what would you recommend?
I am very scared of doing anything drastic to my skin, but some people seem to have improvement with derma rolling.
I wonder if it would help me or should I stay away from it and try other methods?

All I do now is use Psoria Gold Ultra and eat lots of supplements and avocado, plus drink water.
I am 15 months post the last treatment but I believe I already showed signs two years ago, I just didn't realise it then.