1 year dermarolling acne scars (15 sessions) - no improvement

[dermaboy]

Dermaroller: 1.5mm
Sessions: 15
Timeframe: 1 year

Hi Sarah, I want to mention that the roller I purchased from you is a great high quality roller and I do recommend your store.

Are there any people who have experienced ANY positive results from derma rolling for their acne scars?

Before I begin I want to emphasize that this post is solely about my dermarolling experience. Not the dermastamp or single needling. I am here to share my experience with the dermaroller.

Hi I'm a 26 year old male who has been dermarolling my acne scars for 11 months. I have medium acne scars on my cheeks and temples. I'd say out of a scale of 1-10 , my acne scars are about a 5.  They're just your typical boxcar rolling type scars left from bad acne (not ice pick scars). I have been using a 1.5mm dermaroller. I am a fairly aggressive roller and what i mean by that is that i put medium/hard pressure enough to bleed the areas I roll. In other words I roll very thoroughly. Then i will use Vitamin C serum immediately after i roll so on and so forth.

I would like to say I did a months worth of research before trying dermarolling and was very optimistic about dermarolling rolling before i started. Now I have been dermarolling on average once a month for about a year. (15 sessions) I must say there is absolutely very little to no improvement at all.

I mean after a year and 15 sessions you'd think you will see some improvement. But in my experience I have seen little to ZERO improvement with my scars. I could be wrong but i am pretty certain I have caused further scarring by dermarolling and I actually blame that on myself........ So.....15 sessions.. and nothing.... I am very disappointed with the dermaroller and yes in all honesty I feel like I have wasted a lot of my time. I have yet to see a single post on the internet of someone sharing any positive results from derma rolling acne scars. I am talking about people who have dermarolled for a year or more. But NOTHING. I have searched vigorously throughout the internet for a year and I have read nothing but negative feedback or no improvement with dermarolling from people who have dermarolled a year or more. Even finding posts/documents of people who have dermarolled with this long of experience are so far and in between to begin with....Very rare

• I have seen one success story on this forum of a person who has dermarolled for 14 months and saw improvement.  I wish this person would have gave us more detail about her dermarolling experience and success seeming that she's the only person on this forum with a 14+ month dermarolling experience to post her success. Unfortunately she didn't say much in her posts. There is just one success story on here people, where's the rest? I can't just go by one success story. No one should.
  
  https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/14-month-update-skin-keeps-getting-better/
  

This is from my own experience people. For me, dermarolling does not work. It's not worth the time and effort. I have decided if I want to improve my scars, I am going to do it right and ask a specialist/professional expert with experience on how to improve my scars and go from there. The risks outweigh the benefits for me when it comes to dermarolling. There is no improvement in my scars and the risk of additional scarring caused by dermarolling on top of that.

(These aren't actual quotes)
"Derma rolling works for me! I rolled 2 times and my scars look better!!! "
"This is amazing! My scars are already more shallow and my face has a nice glow!"

Comments like this one are everywhere on the internet where people claim or think they're seeing major improvements after a week or 2 months but really they don't know anything. Inflammation makes your skin look more plump and scars more reduced but after a week or two your scars will "reappear" and your skin goes back to normal

I've been spending a year trying to find someone out there with long enough experience with DETAILED information about sharing their positive results from dermarolling for acne scars. I just cant find any. Where are these people? I haven't seen or heard any testimonials on how dermarolling has improved their scars like it's advertised to do. Forums are just bloated with beginner questions like how to get started and what creams to use but no where do I find posts or documents of peoples success stories and details of their results who have dermarolled for at least a year. There are too many beginners and people who just want to believe. Eventually they give up quickly and the same cycle of new inexperienced people continues in these forums. Where are the people who have at least a year of experience who have seen positive results for their acne scars? This is NEVER ever brought up to mention and this needs to be addressed.

In conclusion, for me dermarolling does not work. I have rolled consistently and patiently for 1 year and have seen no results. 15 sessions is really not that much in one year so don't say I overdid dermarolling. I want to believe that dermarolling works, I really do. Even if I noticed the slightest improvement after all this time I would keep going! But the results are just not there. No evidence of any improvement whatsoever. There is zero improvement. Unfortunately for me, dermarolling has made me become more obsessed and more self conscious about my scars. To me, it's not worth it at all. That's why I as of today I officially give up on dermarolling for acne scars. Dermaboy is no more. It's important that people see and read this post and hopefully this post will not get deleted.

Please if anyone with the experience and knowledge of dermarolling please speak up and tell me I am right or wrong! We need more people who have had long enough experience with derma rolling their acne scars to share their stories because there aren't any out there.

If anyone has any questions to post I will definitely answer back

Are there any people who have experienced ANY positive results from dermarolling for their acne scars?

[SarahVaughter]

I am sorry it is not working out for you.

Acne scars are a difficult problem and often, various approaches are needed. It is always a good idea to add a more targeted tool to individual acne scars – such as a single needle or a dermastamp. Some of our customers combined dermarolling/needling with saline injections (the method is described on our forum).

There may be another reason why you had no success. You say you have "typical boxcar rolling type scars".  The rolling type of acne scars are often tethered to the underlying tissue by strong fibers. The fibers hold the scar down and keep it indented. Improvement can be achieved by releasing the fibers. We started to sell suction cups for it and there is a thread about it:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/subcision-suction-method-for-acne-scars/

Until our single needle becomes available, you may want to try a dermastamp.

The reason you hear much more often that a person has problems with a treatment instead of success is that support forums inherent nature is to provide help when things don't go as hoped. Someone who achieves results usually does not bother to sign up to a forum just to say that they are happy now. This is unfortunately the way it works, and I have seen many examples of that over the years - it is the norm rather than the exception. People usually only speak up when they need something, not to "give" something. I get many positive emails every day, also how dermarolling greatly improved acne scars:



 I really am overwhelmed with questions so please excuse my sometimes being tardy in my reply or short of substance.) I've asked him to post on our forum to share the details and he promised he would do so, but just as with many others, the effort appears to be too much. If anyone wants to verify that Andy really exists, email me and I will ask him if he agrees that I give his email address to you.

This forum still contains positive feedback in regard to acne scars however:

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/evenly-spread-acne-scars/

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/6-month-update/

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/it-works-and-gets-easier-with-practice!/

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/8-month-update/

https://http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/improvement-already!-my-first-trial-attempt/

The phenomenon of not-telling-about-success is universal. It exists to an even greater extent for another product of ours, Lufenuron. We had to close the Candida forum due to too many people complaining "it doesn't work" (also for keeping to ask questions that were addressed already) but none of these people ever tested positive on any real Candida test. We hardly ever received positive feedback either. But we know that it is a very effective product for most customers, because firstly, we don't advertise - it's all word of mouth - and we sell more every year. Secondly and most importantly, we had two times that we were sold out for months due to FDA reasons and supply problems. We got inundated with emails by people saying: "Lufenuron saved my life, can you tell me where to get more just in case" and "Lufenuron is the only thing that keeps me going, when will you have more?". People even ressorted to buying Novartis' Lufenuron product for animals, paying many times more, just because it was worth it to them. That's just the way it is, people basically expect that when they pay for something that should work, that it indeed works and when it does not, they sign up to a forum and say: "It doesn't work".  When it does work, they consider that no more than normal and are not going to bother shouting it from the rooftops online. Not many are documenting their progress with pictures over a long period - let alone publish them on the Internet.

Just as with our product Lufenuron, we do not advertize our dermaneedling products. We don't need to - satisfied customers tell others about their successes in more informal ways. If dermaneedling was ineffective, we would not see such explosive growth and mainstream media exposure of the phenomenon. But as I said, acne scars are hard to treat and success depends on using the best techniques that suit the particular type of scar. Would you mind posting a photo of the affected skin? (well-lighted, high-resolution and in perfect focus, this is best done by someone else photographing your face. Use lighting from the side to bring out shadows to highlight the scars.)

[dermaboy]

The reason you hear much more often that a person has problems with a treatment instead of success is that support forums inherent nature is to provide help when things don't go as hoped. Someone who achieves results usually does not bother to sign up to a forum just to say that they are happy now. This is unfortunately the way it works,

Makes perfect sense

Thank you for the response

[cris]

Wow! No improvement at all?  I’m a bit surprised though that you didn’t consider using a dermastamp to treat your scars (probably would’ve been less painful too).  I’m somewhat in the same boat in that I also have some mild acne scarring that I’ve been treating with dermarolling/stamping and I’m almost at the 8-month mark.

In terms of improvement, I can definitely say that I’ve seen some.  However, I thought I would have seen more by this point.  I also wonder what my scars would’ve looked like if I hadn’t done anything to them (scars do diminish slightly on their own with time).

I have two small rolling boxcar scars on my left cheek that bother me the most and were the reason I began dermarolling.  I also have some minor rolling scars on my right cheek that makes my skin appear a bit uneven/bumpy.  I use a 1.5mm dermastamp and 0.5mm dermaroller, which is what Sarah generally recommends to acne scar sufferers.

I can confidently say that my right cheek is more even now, but the scars on my left cheek have not shown the greatest improvement.  They’re not as deep as before, but they seem “stuck” as a visible rolling scar.  But, I’m not giving up on them.  I will try a 2.0mm dermastamp and the suctioning method and see what happens.  I also encourage you to try the same.  There doesn’t seem to be a lot of trusted acne scar treatments out there.

For me, it’s either this or Fraxel, and the same can be said about the few number of success stories with Fraxel that are posted one year after (most tend to be horror stories).

Acne scars suck and trying to treat them is frustrating for me because of the patience involved.  But, I’m in this for the long term and if takes another year, so be it.
 
Thanks for the honest post, and best of luck in your scar improvement.

[granger1961]

Hello there,

Do not give up on dermarolling your acne scars. I have three large deep rolling scar areas on my left cheek and I have been treating them for a year.  First I did dermarolling by itself but started to see some improvement only after using single needling and dermastamping on the areas. When I use a dermastamp for deeper scars, I really feel like I am getting into the underlying strong fibers. I did not get that feeling with the dermaroller. The scars are still visible but have started to shrink in size and are less deeper now. I am planning to do it for another year.

All the best.

[dermaboy]

Awesome! Glad to see some posts from people with needling experience! Interesting that you guys say that the most improvement seen is from single needling. I was actually thinking about using a single needling/derma stamp since they do seem more effective for scars. I'm going to probably wait a month or two before i choose to use single needling. It's going to be more time consuming to single needle the scars on my face but if it's more effective than dermarolling then by all means...single needling/derma stamp it is.

Thank you for your responses. Glad to know there is hope.

[mila]

hello,

I have been single needling and 2mm dermastamping and suctioning for about 3 months and I can see some improvement! I especially targeted the deeper rolling scars on my cheekbones. They have filled up about 20 percent which is better than nothing any day! I am sure that if I continue, things will only get better and better. I also have a supplement of Vitamin C everyday and wash with a face wash that has vitamin c. I also use retin a .25 everynight for a year or more now. My close friends say they see a difference and i should let others who suffer with pockmarks to know about this great treatment. Thanks everyone.

mila

[dermaboy]

Thank you mila ! Glad to know that single needling scars works! I'm definitely going to try single needling scars or use a dermastamp. This is awesome.

Again thank you mila

[munsoned]

Hi dermaboy, I just signed up to this forum..I actually never heard of Sarah Vaughter or this site until the other day..Somebody on another acne scar forum was asking me questions and doing some research I stumbled across this sites pdf for derma rolling/needling instructions. It def caught my eye because it was some of the best info I have ever come across regarding needling/rolling/..I am on other forums under this same user id.

I have been needling/rolling for about 4 years. I was one of the first to jump on board with this years ago when a reglar on another forum brought it to all our attention. He had been doing it for about 2 years before ever bringing it to the forum. So when it comes to needling/rolling I at this point have a lot of personal experience. I am dealing with ice ick scars btw. What caught my eye about the derma rolling instructions from this site and what made me decide to check this place out was there was no BS in that pdf. I could see it was a nice blend of science and experience which is the key. You gotta have both.

Personally for scarring like I have which is deeper ice picks as well as a bad burn scar right on the entire ball of my right cheek, I do not like derma rolling as a stand alone. I feel individual needling basically sets the table for rolling to be most effective. If I just roll I saw very little improvements on my worst scars. But different scars respond differently to treaments. One scar may respond favorably to rolling wile another not so much. But the bottom line I feel that needling/rolling combined allows for a greater potential of improvements.

Needling you can be a lot more precise..Some will just use a volumous approach to needling where they make a high olume of 2mm or so punctures from various angles ect..For me, not even that was very effective for scars. I had to actually rip/tear break up the scar tissue. Because it just would not budge. Once I made a point of doing that and then rolling on top of that, I would start seeing improvements on even my most stubborn scars. After my first year where I did about 6 treatments per scar, once every 2 months, I saw just enough improvement to let me know I was actually accomplishing something. But my improvements after 1 year were minimal. I certainly thought about giving up. But at the end of the day there was no real financial commitment. And this was not a huge inconvenience on my life..Do the treatments, then be patient and wait. Its the slow gradual process that can wear some down. I certainly understand.

I find its about quality not quantity. I don't treat all my scars in a single treatment. I treat several and once I start losing focus I know its time to stop. I like to give each scar the attention it needs. I will needle some scars, roll over that work and then I am usually good to go for 2-3 months and some times longer. I journal my treatments and I pay attention to how scars respond ect..Its work but work and determination is what it takes with this treatment. In many cases I feel I have almost willed my scars to improve. I had every reason to quit and believe it was a lost cause. 2+ years I still had scars that showed little if any improvement. But I just don't give up. I knew if I could improve others it was simply about finding a way. I had the tools that could accomplish the job but I had to try different techniques and methods until like I said, I basically willed scars to improve.

In roughly 4 years I would say I have achieved about 50% overall improvement. Do I wish I achieved more, of course. Would other treatments like laser/subcision ect..accomplished better results in shorter time? Possibly. I feel a combination of treatments may deliver the best or most optimal results. So I am certainly not saying don't go out and find other treatment options. You have to find what works for you..You have to look at factors like cost, number of treatments, down time, potential improvements ect ect..All these things in my view have to be considered when you are coming up with a plan of action.

But I am still getting after it. I certainly hope to increase my percentage of improvement moving forward by staying dedicated and consistent..You wanted to hear from smebody who has experience and has achieved positive results so here it is..And again, I did not just derma roll. Its not enough in my case. I needled and rolled on top of that. They compliment each other I feel. They each come with their own advantages and disadvantages..

[dermaboy]

Thanks munsoned. Skin needling takes a lot of time and patience and it seems single needling is the most effective. Your post is very very crucial because not many people have shared their long term experience.
Thank you

[SarahVaughter]

I would like to express my gratitude to everybody who took the time to describe their experience. No method works in 100% of cases or 100% of skin conditions. And for those for which it works, dedication and various approaches in microneedling are often necessary to achieve results.

[jimster]

Hi Dermaboy,

I have had mixed results from derma rolling over the last 2.5 years... I started with a professional derma rolling treatment (2 sessions, 6 weeks apart). They used a very aggressive technique, very fast (both directions) and much more than the 8 rolls in each direction! My skin was very bloody afterwards, and scabby in places. They gave me chiroxy cream to help with healing, and the results were very good. Skin tone improved, scars softened, and some had gone. But some came back a few months later. Overall, if I had kept shelling out the £350 a time every 6 weeks, then I am sure my results would be very good after 2.5 years! But I tried to replicate at home, and really have struggled to get similar results.

I think at home, people can fear 'over doing it' and therefore lighter rolls more frequently seem to be easier to deal with, (plus over the counter numbing cream is no where near as good as what the professionals use!). I have 'grinned and bared it' and used lots of numbing cream, and 2.0 - 2.5mm rollers... sometimes rolling frequently (every 3-4 weeks) and sometimes going 2-3months without... I have tried Vit C (obagi do a good one) and chiroxy cream, and have tried without... I think they help, but its very hard to judge.

I noticed your comment about 'creating scars' I think this is just older scars which have not made their way to the surface... Based on my experience from the professional treatment, you have to go some way to 'scar' the skin with a derma roller... The 192 needle types can probably do 30plus rolls in one area without scaring.

Here are my thoughts on why dermarolling on its own can take a while to reduce scarring..

1) Some scars are still in the 'pipe line'... and therefore it is a battle for a while improving old scars and uncovering newer scars...
2) The hit rate on a scar from the derma roller is not very high. You can end up 'tracking' where the needles stab the same or very close to last zone every roll, and miss large areas of skin which have most of the scar tissue...
3) The surrounding skin is improved also, and therefore the difference in height between scar and normal skin remains similar...
4) Reduction in scar depth by 20% can look like 0%... as in the scar is still there, the eye is still drawn to it... (scanning of skin would be interesting, but obviously out of our range... )
5) The scar is lower than the surrounding skin, and therefore the needle penetrates less into the scar (depth wise)...

So what am I going to do? Well, I have found this site for a start, and bought the suction pump (used it yesterday) and a derma stamp (2.0) and used couple of days ago (using vit c only at the moment). I also have copper peptides, tretinon and chiroxy cream on order. I have targeted 5 scars only, and will wait week, then do the others... as i want to see how long it takes for redness to go down, to make sure I have the 'intensity' right. I did 'feel' like the stamp was attacking the scars much better... I heard/felt a crunching sound, and the swelling/tightening looks much better than after any roll... (i know this subsides and the scar returns) but at least it looks like something is happening! The suction pump (i think I over did this), but the redness is going down, I am using lots of hylauronic cream (has vit e and oils) and have some emu oil...

I have a 1.0mm derma roller, which I will use a week before another stamping session and will wait for 4-5 weeks after stamping...

I feel your frustration with what seemed like an arduous derma roller campaign, and to see little/no results is not good. However, the comfort I take, is that derma rolling is good for general skin thickness, fine lines, wrinkles etc, so even if it does not cure scars on its own, i will continue to roll to help skin stay in good condition... What I can say is that there is hope, because the professional treatment did produce some very good results, most of which stayed... And as my home roller regime has been similar (maybe slightly longer and deeper) to yours, there is hope for you also.

I will keep you posted with my results.

Good luck to you, and I hope you post any news on this thread.

Jim

[SarahVaughter]

From the very beginning I have been recommending a combination of:

a dermaroller + the single needles or
 a dermaroller +  a dermastamp


..for any type of scars or stretch marks. A dermaroller for overall skin texture and the needles/stamp to precisely target the scars. 

If the scars are not improving, try longer needles, apply Tretinoin cream right after stamping and use the suction pump.

The initial improvement may sometimes be the greatest and the scars may not significantly improve with further treatments. For example, if you crush the hardened collagen and thus soften the appearance of the scars, it will make a big difference but once it is done, there is nothing to crush/soften any more. The first stage has been completed.

In the second stage, the scars should gradually fill in but this is not always 100 % successful and it can take a long time. Do not give up too soon.
Good luck to you and keep us posted.

[granger1961]

Here is a follow-up after my posting dated September 30, 2012 under this heading of no improvement.  In October 2012, I decided to stop dermarolling my scar areas on the left cheek as it would make the areas surrounding the scars very red and swollen up. My rolling type scars were big and deep: two of them larger than a dermastamp and one a bit smaller than a dermastamp.  As I noticed that the scars were really bound down (much lower that the good skin area), I thought I should focus on single needling the edges of the scars for a few months, which I did weekly trying different parts of the scars. The single needling allowed me to work the scar edges at different angles and with each prick I would feel a crunching sound. I also did some dermastamping with a 2mm size but not very aggressively.  After single needling and dermastamping, I always only used one or two drops of 100% copper peptides on the areas.

In July 2013, I did not hear much of a crunching sound when pricking the edges of the scars but I thought the scars looked deep and not great at all so I almost gave up.  But then I thought if the crunching sound has practically disappeared when I do single needling, I should do a very very agressive dermastamping session (many times on same spot) on all the scars areas, one scar at a time a few days apart.  I did that at the beginning of August 2013. The scar areas were quite red, the skin peeled a lot afterwards but guess what? Now all the scar areas look less deep and smaller. The smaller scar area has almost even out and shrank a lot. The larger ones have also started to even out and are now more the size of a dermastamp. I am extremely pleased with the results.  I am planning to keep doing very agressive dermastamping sessions on the two larger scar areas with a 2mm size one month apart. I will keep doing single needling only on the much smaller scar area. I am not planning to resume dermarolling just yet.

So for people with no improvement out there, do not give up as it took me over two years, more like close to three years, to get any significant results.

[granger1961]

Clarification about product used on scar areas after dermastamping: Copper peptide serum plus Hyaluronic acid.